Independant Bottlers?

[butternutsquashpie]

So after that delightful post about 10 Year Old Laggy and seeing VTG's collection of fine malts, I really wanted to steer the discussion somewhere with it, but to a point almost never talked about. I also wanted to discuss this because i just came across two bottles of Caol Ila 20 and 23 year old for 260 pounds. But anyways:

What're all your thoughts on independent bottlers? Just the main ones that you can see on the shelves all the time: Gordan and MacPhail, Hart Brothers, MacKillop's Choice, etc.
I have a Hart Brothers Dalmore 22YO (that's actually 40 years old now!) that is probably the best dram i've ever had. It was somewhere around 100 quid and was actually better than those bulky 500 quid bottles i've seen floating around from Dalmore: most notably, the 25YO. Holy hot hell are those expensive! But this independent bottler managed to make it slightly better than the 25 YO for 90% of the age and a FIFTH of the price.
What are your opinions on the independent bottlers that exist and their records? I, myself, have only tried this one and it turned out pretty bloody well, mind you . But have you had any misses with these? Also, would you think a Caol Ila of around 23YO would be a good idea for 260 quid considering the independent bottler?

[SmokeyDave]

Crikey that seems expensive for the Caol Ila, I picked up a 24YO Caol Ila under the Signatory Vintage label for ?110.00 last November.

It was well worth the price, a glorious classic expression of the Caol Ila flavours.

As far as other independent bottlings, my sampling has been very small so far.

[butternutsquashpie]

Yupp. It was two hundred and sixty.... damn it jeremy.
Would the independent bottler's really make that big of a difference? I mean it could taste leagues above what the 24 tastes like. it MIGHT.....

And hmmmmmm.. your's was regular bottling by Caol Ila themselves right? So blended and aged with their master blenders? I'm just kinda scared to see what the Hart Brothers would do to a 23YO bottle of something. i'm sure it'll be good.. But i mean, i could get five times the ration of Bruichladdich Laddie 10 for that price!!

[ValeTudoGuy]

Can be hit or miss, most independent bottlers are blenders that I am aware of.... so on that front treat it as you would any blend.

If they are buying casks of single malt to resell as single malt then the distiller has still done most of the work, so you have to ask the question why did they sell those barrels rather than bottle them?.. Usually the answer is that for what ever reason those barrels didn't express the characteristics they wanted. Often independent bottlers can't show which distillery the spirit came from for this exact reason.

When they do show which distillery the spirit came from it tends to be that they paid a more premium price for quality spirit that the distiller is happy to have their name on.

As with any whisky, buy what you like or take a punt if your willing to risk the investment.

[SmokeyDave]

When I was visiting the Edradour Distillery I posed the question to them about all the independant bottled offerings they had.

The answer was that over the years they had aquired lots of casks from other bottlers that had gone out of business. Going back to the early 80's, single malt was the exception and nearly all distilleries casked for blends and sold all their stock to independants, hence the crazy price for 30yr+ single malts.

So, if Edradour had a cask from Caol Ila that had been sat in an independant bottlers warehouse for 30 years they are allowed to bottle it and call in Caol Ila, even though the only thing in common with Caol Ila is that it was produced initially there. Depending on where it has been sat ageing for all those years may give a very unique expression.

Apologies for the not very technical description, but hopefully you get idea

[ValeTudoGuy]

That's very interesting Info, it's somewhat logical to me but still an interesting confirmation.... Let's just hope they keep accurate records.