Ageing Non-Cubans

[PeeJay]

I have just finished reading the Le Snob Guide to Cigars which was a good little read especially for newbies but the author makes the point of syaing that there are no non-Cubans worth putting aside to age. Is that true in your opinions?

[Simon-JG-hr]

It appears to be an appropriately named guide then. Clearly written by a snob.

They may be slightly more thin on the ground, but there are some non-Cubans with enough complexity and power to repay some ageing. I think the Padron 1926 line are just such a cigar - give them an extra five years and they'll be excellent. As it happens, I don't get the usual hype around Padron, aside from the 1926 line I've found them to be over-rated and over-priced. I'd say you'll get more luck ageing Nicaraguans than anything else; they have some areas grown with a more similar strain of tobacco and on more similar 'terroir' to Cuba, so have some characteristics which can develop over time like with Cubans.

My thoughts from reading around, and a little experience.

[ValeTudoGuy]

Is there a definitive guidance to aging cigars? I have looked on the net and most guides I find appear to be very unscientific and use loose phrases like "Over ripe" the consensus on timescales and what is being expected to happen also seems quite sketchy and prone to opinion by any giver author.

Simply put, I understand aging alcohol and it's sound scientific reasoning.... But I'm scratching my head a bit with cigars, it just seems a bit like conjecture and random personal experiments at the moment.

Obviously I have no experience to formulate any of my own opinions on, other than an aged Hoyo which had picked up huge amounts of cedar and was stupidly strong (neither I considered fantastic traits.) and short of smoking an identical stick with no age I can only assume that any stick would taste of cedar if kept in those conditions since 1998.

I'm also currently making a further assumption that a stick can never become more aromatic and flavorful with its OWN profile as these traits would only fade with time, so are we relying on outside factors to add something to the stick and help flavors mellow and "round" as we are when whisky is put into oak barrels? If this is the case then I see no reason why any cigar NC, CC... Whatever wouldn't receive identical benefits from a given amount of aging...

Finally, what specific traits make a cigar a good candidate for aging? To my mind it would be a cigar with good flavour profiles that is just too in your face and perhaps disjointed in its delivery of the flavours, you know the flavours could do with a chance to mingle for a bit.

Perhaps I just need some experience trying sticks throughout their lifecycle.

[SteveGriff]

I'm pretty certain that book is written by Colin Ganley, who writes for Cigar Journal magazine and other publications. I'm pretty certain his credentials for Cuban Cigars has never been in doubt, but I very much doubt that you can just say there aren't any non-Cubans that would benefit from any kind of ageing. It doesn't make much sense. Does the book explain why it's pointless ageing non-Cubans?

[Simon Bolivar]

We have had this discussion before so try search. I rmeember someone quoting the owner of a line of NC's saying they wouldn't improve with aging, they are ready for smoking when they are brought. His idea was that most NC's leaf is aged & perhaps as cigars as well, like Cubans used to be before the boom of the 90's wiped out a lot of stock.
I have no opinion myself, not experienced enough with NC's to make a judgement.

[butternutsquashpie]

NCs to age for sure:
Davidoff
Zino
Padron '26
A.F. Sharks, OppieXs, Hemmingways
Diamond Crown Maximus (made by A.F. actually)

NCs to never age:
most of the others really. of course, the problem with lists is that you always forget some damn ones. but those ones above are definitely worth ageing. especially the diamond crown maximus. but those reach prices of cuban chrchills!! they're also so damn glamourised that it's not even worth laughing at anymore (not only is it a crown, but it has diamonds and it's to the MAX!).
anyways, most NCs lose their strength or letheriness whent they are aged. that's a real shame considering they're the selling point of La Flor Dominicana, My Uzi Weighs a Ton, etc.
but the most generic ones are just too cheap to age. My Father, La Aurora, etc vits are 5-8 bucks and really not meant to be aged. i heard they do fair a tad better with age, but not worth the hassle or time. save it for your RYJs or Cohibas. and not the NCs

[butternutsquashpie]

bear in mind that some humidors in the americas have the same marca and vitola for COMPLETELY different prices. best example is in New York State, a little shop off the interstate called Cigar World had Davidoff 2000s for (i think) 10 and 17 dollars. the reason for the 17 was that they were aged minimum of 5 years.
they wouldn't charge nearly twice the price if they didn't think people would enjoy the extra age!! this holds true for zino platinum as these two are the only ones that i know age their sticks.

[PeeJay]

I'm pretty certain that book is written by Colin Ganley, who writes for Cigar Journal magazine and other publications. I'm pretty certain his credentials for Cuban Cigars has never been in doubt, but I very much doubt that you can just say there aren't any non-Cubans that would benefit from any kind of ageing. It doesn't make much sense. Does the book explain why it's pointless ageing non-Cubans?

You're right it is Colin Ganley and basically he is saying that the non-Cuban tobacco is generally less strong in flavour and not as durable.

[Sean]

I think theres a market for ageing in AF alone there is some greats smokes all together as mentioned the opus x and sharks but there is also the 858's and the reserva's which are great NC's

[rascal]

hello long time lurker and will introduce myself properly but aged statements on NC are not the aged of the stick but the length of time the tobacco has been aged complete different thing. Some NC really do benefit from a year or two of age will turn a nasty stick into a very pleasant smoke

[Simon-JG-hr]

he is saying that the non-Cuban tobacco is generally less strong in flavour and not as durable.

Now, that's a statement I would probably have to agree with - but the key word is generally. I'm not sure he can have it both ways... Haha. I think as a rule of thumb, it's not at all unfair to suggest that Cubans benefit more from ageing that non-Cubans. Though there are some NCs which will develop every bit as well as a Cuban, and indeed some Cubans which will just tread water or regress.

This has got me thinking about trying to swing a travel/research grant from the RAC to visit the Caribbean and central America to conduct plant and soil research...

[PeeJay]

With an assistant?

[butternutsquashpie]

This has got me thinking about trying to swing a travel/research grant from the RAC to visit the Caribbean and central America to conduct plant and soil research...

go with cigarsam! little trip with a grad student never hurt anybody anyhow!! Er.. yupp. business.... to cuba.

but seriously.. methinks it is also the way the cubans treat the tobacco. being the communist country they are, they have the men and manpower to work countless hours on something like cigars in order to make the best product with the best ingrediant: love. but seriously! all that dedication along with years of tradition from the robaina family and alike.. it's just unmatched that way!
and i guess the soil might help it quite a bit too.....

the NCs just have the way of business. if some of the NC markets would control the flow of cuban cigars, maybe we wouldn't have seen the RA898s, the punch SSes, or the LGCno1s disappear from the market.
alas i digress............

[monkey66]

We have had this discussion before so try search. I rmeember someone quoting the owner of a line of NC's saying they wouldn't improve with aging, they are ready for smoking when they are brought. His idea was that most NC's leaf is aged & perhaps as cigars as well, like Cubans used to be before the boom of the 90's wiped out a lot of stock.
I have no opinion myself, not experienced enough with NC's to make a judgement.

http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?12385-New-or-Older-Cohiba&p=182694#post182694

[Simon-JG-hr]

I think I share your cynicism from the other thread... Anytime the Padrons or Pete Johnson are involved then marketing will be the first thing on their minds... Maybe I'm just a cynic too... (Apologies if I picked up an implied cynicism that wasn't there).

Yes, most NCs are (supposedly) made from older tobacco, and then stored/aged before shipping. Even in the cases where they are aged for some years by the producers before shipping (incidentally, I understand Padron do not do this). So, let's say that five year old tobacco is used, and then aged for a year before release. That's just six years. Thinking about the Padron example... The tobacco may be nicely aged, but could always develop a little further (otherwise they wouldn't use 10 year old leaves for some cigars and 5 year old leaves for others... Accepting that different leaves have different qualities, it is a little bit of a generalisation). Plus, once you've put it all together, do you not want to allow them to meld together and develop a character for a few years?