Bring Back G-Man Mike

[saggel]

Fantastic... but then what would you say about this for example?

[leperaffinity]

Don't worry! We'll both be banned, so grab some cigars and come to my place for a ban-herf!

...famous last words

[MarkSDMF]

Just to play devil advocate, the forum has to keep itself beyond reproach with respect to legal issues such as tax avoidance aka grey market trading. As Deano owns the forum i would imagine he would be held personally responsible for what happens on here, not necessarily right but i would imagine that is how it would play out. If someone is promoting ways to UK members of how to procure cigars that may or may not have the relevant fees and regulations followed then the forum needs to take measures to protect itself for the benefit for all its members.

Now if a heated debate between a member and a mod got out of hand i can understand a banning (understand not necessarily agree).

Just an alcohol fueled idea (always the best i find). Can't there be a clause in the buying/selling/trading rules along the lines of "by buying/selling/trading on this forum the buyer/seller/traders assumes full responsibilities for ensuring all taxes, fees and forms are completed in accordance with the law of relevant countries" Just a thought to let our BOTL across the pond play on an equal footing.

Hmmmmm seems my glass contents has evaporated, how could that have happened? Must remedy at once lol.

Ok, got you so far.

I would presume that buying, trading and selling would be dealt with outside of the forum though ?
I can say that i havent noticed anyone discussing these matters on the forum regarding direct payment to one another, be it mainland uk or otherwise ?

[jibjob79]

just read the closed The rate of unemployement thread and thought i'd post Deano's message as i like a lot of people seem to have missed it as it. Couldn't quote as the thread is closed.

Mike has a week's ban after I had to tell him for the 10th not to promote grey market trading. A box split is one thing, but he's buying them and selling them on just for that purpose. That isn't what the trading is here for on the forum.

He was warned and warned again over and over and over, and ultimately I had to slap his wrists. Sorry but we've had complaints from UK retail about the level of NCs being traded on here, and if it continues we could be liable.

Ultimately it's my ass on the line, so I make the decisions. I'm sorry Mike wasn't able to refrain from doing what we asked him (and I can't over emphasise how many times we asked him) to stop doing.

[MarkSDMF]

Pffft.

Keeping my gob shut. Totalitarian forums ? Thats a new one.

[Soulmanure]

I'd say 'totalitarian' in this case is a somewhat hyperbolic use of the concept, and so to apply it to a forum such as this, whose members voluntarily agree to the rules established by the owner, seems to misapply the term. The very point of totalitarian systems is that one has neither a choice nor, in most cases, any concept of when, where, or why one will be targeted. As well, totalitarian systems have as their point of reference one or more objects of hate on which to blame their failures (Jews, gays, capitalists, gypsies, etc.). Finally, as the name implies, totalitarian systems are total in their application of fear, oppression, and control. I can't see how any of these factors are at play in this situation.

In this case, there is a definite rule, which is that one ought not buy for the mere purpose of reselling, for profit or otherwise. It appears that there were a series of warnings in the case of G-man, and if true, then this is completely rule-bound fair play within the system we've all accepted.

The only gray areas that seem to need clarification revolves around two issues:

1. have mods broken the gray-market rule, and do they have the right to if so (or do they need to be moderated). In Larry's case, referred to earlier, it is clear that he did not buy the Padrons for the purpose of reselling, but just decided to let members have at them rather than returning them. So this is a question not of the act of selling, but of its intention. If anyone can point to a case where it's clear that such is going on, that should be posted.
2. Have any members not been involved in gray-market trading but accused of it nonetheless. If so, that should be brought out or dealt with privately.

I suppose that was a bit long-winded. Apologies. I'd go have a smoke now, but it's raining.

[Big J]

Bring back the G-MAN!!!!!!!!

[J Cano]

Why dont G just log on with a new name and start over.

[TJCoro]

You Rang?

Seriously? There's no admin / mod online to give an answer to all these? Who's watching the forum? The sponsors?

Ummmm! Bag Boy here, filling in for the late, great magical moderator don TJ, TJ Coro.

What seems to be the problem, hombres?

[MarkSDMF]

I'd say 'totalitarian' in this case is a somewhat hyperbolic use of the concept, and so to apply it to a forum such as this, whose members voluntarily agree to the rules established by the owner, seems to misapply the term. The very point of totalitarian systems is that one has neither a choice nor, in most cases, any concept of when, where, or why one will be targeted. As well, totalitarian systems have as their point of reference one or more objects of hate on which to blame their failures (Jews, gays, capitalists, gypsies, etc.). Finally, as the name implies, totalitarian systems are total in their application of fear, oppression, and control. I can't see how any of these factors are at play in this situation.

In this case, there is a definite rule, which is that one ought not buy for the mere purpose of reselling, for profit or otherwise. It appears that there were a series of warnings in the case of G-man, and if true, then this is completely rule-bound fair play within the system we've all accepted.

The only gray areas that seem to need clarification revolves around two issues:

1. have mods broken the gray-market rule, and do they have the right to if so (or do they need to be moderated). In Larry's case, referred to earlier, it is clear that he did not buy the Padrons for the purpose of reselling, but just decided to let members have at them rather than returning them. So this is a question not of the act of selling, but of its intention. If anyone can point to a case where it's clear that such is going on, that should be posted.
2. Have any members not been involved in gray-market trading but accused of it nonetheless. If so, that should be brought out or dealt with privately.

I suppose that was a bit long-winded. Apologies. I'd go have a smoke now, but it's raining.

Jesus, was trying to put a lighter spin on things.
How can a forum be totalitarian in the first place.

Jeezo ill grab my coat.

[MarkSDMF]

Why dont G just log on with a new name and start over.

Its an I.p ban.

When your on the intrawebs, your data is saved. ALL of it, from what hardware your running to your ip address and the length of time you've spent on that particular website.

You can easily get past an I.P ban using a proxy.

One much like this:

http://anonymouse.org/anonwww.html

[Soulmanure]

Jesus, was trying to put a lighter spin on things.
How can a forum be totalitarian in the first place.

Jeezo ill grab my coat.

Hey Mark,
wasn't thinking of you in particular, or any other such, just the application of the term to a forum in the first place.

[MarkSDMF]

Like i said. It wasn't supposed to be literal.

The idea of a totalitarian forum in the first place is ridiculous.
I was merely trying to make things a little lighter. I seem to have failed.
I need sleep.

Early rise in the morning. Well 4 hours sleep is the best im gonna get now.

[r0lan6]

Just saw this thread and feel rather shocked. Also just read jibjobs post too. I do hope you come back Gm!


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[davidruddell]

Morning all, whatever happens it's going
be an interesting day.

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