Define: 'Fair and open competition'

[Simon-JG-hr]

Now, it's been a few years since I studied English... however, I'm still fairly confident that the FCO's definition of 'fair and open competition' would not be one found in a textbook...

Paraphrased:

It is only possible to apply for this opportunity if you are:
(a) female
AND/OR
(b) from an ethnic-minority
AND/OR
(c) disabled
This is to ensure recruitment is through: "fair and open competition".

This is the first time that I have ever used this acronym... but... WTF!!!???

Your thoughts people? Have the FCO done unto our fine language what Labour so often did... the word doesn't really mean that sir... well, use it anyway, people will learn to enjoy our bastardisation of the English language...

[satch]

Unfotunately it seems to sum up the world we live in these days.

[Soulmanure]

In terms of direct denotation, that is a nice abuse of language. On the other hand, I wonder what the context of the job is: is this position opened in order to deal with an imbalance noted by the people posting the position, or is it just a general application for a position that opened up in a fair system? If the latter, then someone's got a sense of humor or no sense at all.

[cj121]

Understand your point Simon, but I'm with the Soulman at the mo: what's the actual post/position?

[Maxi-J]

Well, you know, that's affirmative action for you. Whether one actually agrees with it as an instrument or not, that's how it works. I think there is a time and a place for it, but there's also a limit. It's a balance between rectifying de facto discrimination in public (and private) organisations but without destroying the hopes and dreams of decent, hardworking citizens who don't fit the criteria. Although as the other chaps have said, it would be helpful to know the precise nature of the position and the posting itself. Surely this can't have been advertised as one of their regular yearly internships? Special listing? It's easy to understand how that could be mighty frustrating, though. I guess that's just one of the arguments against affirmative action: it replaces one wrong with another wrong and creates an air of bitterness amongst those that lose out as a result of its administration. I'm sure something else will come up mate

[Simon-JG-hr]

It is indeed for an internship. As such, there is no possible way for a caucasian/British, able-bodied male to get any work experience in the FCO. They suggested when I contacted them that I try for an internship with another department... What!? If I wanted to get experience of work in The Treasury (with a view of making it a career) I'd have contacted them... As such, I now have to shell out several hundred pounds to travel to (and stay in) a foreign country for work experience at a consulate (who aren't bound by these silly rules).

I do not believe in equality, and I despise positive discrimination (or positive action as they call it...). I believe in equity.

[Pandyboy]

I think that is classed as positive discrimination, which I think is illegal in the UK.
In the organisation I work for they would say that those groups were encouraged to apply for the job.
Challenge it it discriminates against you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[r0lan6]

Is this not contrary to the Race Relations Act 2000? Just at the top of my head the only exemptions to this UK statute are when a public official is doing so on immigration and/or national grounds. I do not believe positive discrimination to be an exemption. And perhaps article 14 of the Human Rights Act can further substantiate this possible tort. Of course employment law is not my area of expertise.

[Maxi-J]

My own reading is that while 'positive discrimination' is indeed illegal under both British and European law, 'positive action' is perfectly legal under the United Kingdom Equality Act 2010 ss 157-158.

'Positive discrimination is not to be confused with positive action. Positive discrimination, affirmative action or reverse discrimination, generally means choosing someone solely on the grounds of their gender or racial group, and not on their abilities. Positive discrimination is illegal under UK anti-discrimination law.'

Thus, 'positive action' is quite legal, I believe. I am not trained in the law, but it seems quite clear cut to me. Perhaps someone else knows otherwise? This resource might also be of interest to clear up the details: http://www.diversitytoolkit.org.uk/glossary/_P/

[Pandyboy]

I'm sure positive action gives assistance to those from minority groups to help them in work applications etc. The wording on this one says you can only apply if; not you are encouraged to apply etc. I work for a public body and we only use the encourage one when advertising posts within the body.

[Simon-JG-hr]

Yes, they have referred to this as 'positive action'. However, the very act of making it impossible for a section of the community to apply turns it into discrimination for my money.

I've already written a letter to my MP. I had resigned myself to not being able to take part in the scheme and was just going to stew a while, rather than actually complain. But the sheer hypocricy of the response my tutor got when enquiring on my behalf has got my back up. I could almost accept it if they simply described it as positive action (though, again, I would not agree); but the afront to twist and contort the English language and make out that this is 'fair and open'...

[Maxi-J]

Check this out: http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/about-us/wo...experience/sdp

This seems to be a different scheme from the one that Simon is referring to, but once again, and this time referring to Section 37 of the Race Relation Act 1976, it seems to condone the practice initially referred to. The difference seems to lie in the fact that while positive discrimination makes a judgement 'solely on the grounds of their gender or racial group', positive action instruments require candidates to be equally qualified. I really cannot believe that the FCO is unknowingly (or knowingly) breaching the law, but where is an expert in employment law when you need one?!

[Maxi-J]

And yes Simon, the language 'fair and open' does seem to take the piss a bit, no?

[DeadBase]

I think it sucks that we live in an environment where companies hire people to fill quotas etc. If there was truly no discrimination then ethnic, sexual or religious mixes would not be an issue as it would be those people most capable of the position that filled it. 'Positive' discrimination is highlighting that there is a thought that those of a different gender, race or religious persuasion are somehow less capable of getting employed without someone giving them a helping hand.

[Burner]

If you try to remove discrimination from what is essentially a discriminatory process you tend to get a piss poor result.