Brown Resigns

[El Catador]

In the UK, the Conseratives are a true blue English party who strive to make middle England better and to hell with everybody else.

Agreed.

Whereas the Labour party, on the other hand, screw every penny of taxes they can out of middle England to support a systemically abused welfare state system and profligate public sector spending. Not forgetting providing tax concessions to the Scots and the welsh to keep them sweet (tuition fees, prescription charges, etc, etc).

The one good thing about this election is that it has effectively ended the "union" in the UK. The Scottish elections next year will underline that!

I share your optimism, and wish you well in raising the taxes needed to meet the shortfall in public finances without the subsides generously donated by middle English taxpayers.

P.S. I'm part Scottish so don't take this rant personally, I just can't help biting when I see such anti-English, anti-Tory, blinkered bias. I lived through Thatcher (not fun at times), but anyone who believes the last thirteen years under Labour has been an 'improvement' is either delusional or on the receiving end of their 'largess' (perhaps both)!

[Robusto]

Kenneth Clarke is a cigar smoker and a jazz fiend.
No idea if his cigars are decent.
I believe he works/worked for BAT.

[celsis]

El Catador, I'm not anti English. I honestly believe that we are friends and will remain so after independence for England AND Scotland.

Also, if you check the figures, Scotland gets ever so slightly less back from Westminster than we put in. The free elderly care reduced price prescription is simply a case of different spending priorities. Westminster believes in big vanity programs like the Olympics and Trident, the Scottish Gpvernment believes that the money should be spent on it's citizens.

To want independence is not anti English. It's anti Westminster!

[El Catador]

El Catador, I'm not anti English. I honestly believe that we are friends and will remain so after independence for England AND Scotland.

Me too.

Also, if you check the figures, Scotland gets ever so slightly less back from Westminster than we put in.

Don't go there! Simply not true. (even if you take into account ALL the revenue generated by the oil and gas industry).

To want independence is not anti English. It's anti Westminster!

Essentially, I agree with you.

I have to confess though, I haven't yet met a Scotsman who supports independence who doesn't harbour at least a 'grudge' towards the English (the clan clearances were a long, ('long') time ago - just let it go now!). That comes from spending several years living and working in Scotland.
I arrived British .. came home English!

My gripe is with the blinkered nationalism and hard-done-too attitude of it all.
Let's not forget, for all the dislike of 'Westminster', the last two 'Prime Ministers (even though I don't recognise G.B.'s legitimacy to call himself that) have both been Scottish.
In fact for a nation whose population accounts for less than 10% of UK, the Scots have had a disproportionate amount of influence on the Union as a whole (look at the make up of previous cabinets).
Yet still we have to listen to the age old Scottish mantra of: 'Westminster just looks after the interests of the English' (If only!!!).

I don't want this to come across as anti-Scottish, I'm not. I love the Country and I'm looking forward to enjoying its hospitality and beauty in a couple of weeks, however, it has to be said, 'Be careful what you wish for!'

I'll be sorry to see the Union break up, because I think you'll find that economically at least, you've been 'sold' a load of 'horsesh1t'. Even with every penny of North sea/Scottish oil piped back into Scotland (ignoring exploration costs and 'outside' investments etc), it still won't cover the shortfall in the 'Public Purse'.
The SNP's explanation of how they intend to maintain existing levels of spending on public services is a jingo-istic fantasy.
Look at the GDP! Three times that of the UK as a whole.
Roughly 50% on public services, with tax revenues of around 40%, leaving a 'black hole' of 10% (currently paid by 'Westminster' and 'UK' taxpayers).

I suspect the only way to resolve the issue, particularly given Scotland's election result (not a single seat changed hands - Labour to the core), is for the rest of the Union to stand back and let you get on with it.
But, cold hard reality makes me fear the worst for Scotland's future.

P.S. I promised myself I'd keep my politics to myself. Damn! and double damn.
Back to cigars and talking sh*t for me. Serious face ... gone!

[DeadBase]

Kenneth Clarke is a cigar smoker and a jazz fiend.

I love the idea of a jazz fiend.

[Robusto]

A Hush Puppies monger also, I think.
Unless he's a Birkenstocker.

Theresa (sp?) May (?) likes leopard skin flat shoes.
Channel 4 told me last night.
I had no idea but I got all revved up.

Mmmmmmmm.
Cabinet Purrrrry Girl.

[celsis]

Me too.



'Westminster just looks after the interests of the English' (If only!!!).

Naw, Westminster looks after it's members and the bosses!

I don't want this to come across as anti-Scottish, I'm not. I love the Country and I'm looking forward to enjoying its hospitality and beauty in a couple of weeks, however, it has to be said, 'Be careful what you wish for!'

I honestly look forward to independence. Anybody that says it'll be easy is a liar and probably has the average IQ of a Lanarkshire voter!

I suspect the only way to resolve the issue, particularly given Scotland's election result (not a single seat changed hands - Labour to the core), is for the rest of the Union to stand back and let you get on with it.
But, cold hard reality makes me fear the worst for Scotland's future.

No seats changed hands because Labour ran a scare campaign. Vote LAbour to keep the Tories out! They can't do that again. Anyway, the Scottish elections are a different kettle of fish.

P.S. I promised myself I'd keep my politics to myself. Damn! and double damn.
Back to cigars and talking sh*t for me. Serious face ... gone!

You're ok. Politics are interesting. They affect every aspect of our lives. Just think how boring it would be if everybody thought the same ot if we had the US system!

[Deano]

In my opinion, if the Scottish want it let them go independent.

The Barnett formulae is totally skewed and was only meant to be temporary. It's not fair to other tax-paying UK citizens.

Nothing against the Scottish, in fact I'm being pro-Scottish by saying let them have what they want, it's only fair.

Maybe Cornwall will finally split off too.

[Howling]

In my opinion, if the Scottish want it let them go independent.

The Barnett formulae is totally skewed and was only meant to be temporary. It's not fair to other tax-paying UK citizens.

Nothing against the Scottish, in fact I'm being pro-Scottish by saying let them have what they want, it's only fair.

Maybe Cornwall will finally split off too.

Hell if Scotland and Cornwall are off, then we here in the People's Republic of Yorkshire are off too!

[Robusto]

Someone tell the Isle of Sheppey.

[Paulie]

Thought I might jump in on this and bring up the 'West Lothian Question' too, a seriously big issue in the HOP of late. However, how much is it an issue now as the Lib Dems are part of the Government and have 12/59 seats in Scotland.

[Big_T_UK]

Oh wow, I stopped reading this thread ages ago, time to catch up!

Joy, this could be fun.

T.

[celsis]

Thought I might jump in on this and bring up the 'West Lothian Question' too, a seriously big issue in the HOP of late. However, how much is it an issue now as the Lib Dems are part of the Government and have 12/59 seats in Scotland.

Paulie, since devo, I've been of the opinion that Scots MPs shouldn't vote on exclusively English matters.

It does raise he question of two tiers of MP, however.

The system is broken and I doubt there is much chance of fixing it.

[Lionhound]

To inject some levity to this thread, how many of you remember the TV series "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister". Despite being comedies, they did have some ring of truth.
The Cabinet are important figureheads but the work of the civil servants lower down the ranks are influential and they are the same guys for each government. I always find cabinet reshuffles amusing, a case of "hmm, you aren't very good at education secretary, how'd you fancy Dept of agriculture.
Is it me?
The average man in the street has had his/her chance, now we need to let them get on with it. All the arguments in the world won't change it for the time being.
In reality your local mp, despite his party should be working for his constituents. However we all know that this rarely happens on major issues because a) not enough of us approach them. B) of those who do not enough are making the same point so there is no major consensus in a constituency for change, and c) if a major issue does get consensus the party politics side comes to bear.

The "party line" is maybe the problem, maybe things would have been better with no party politics and just individuals genuinely fighting the corner of their constituency members.
Will never happen, just a thought. We elect them to work for us and occassionally someone is lucky enough to get a bloody good mp, regardless of party, who actually does pull out the stops and work for his/her people. Just a shame its only occassionaly.

[Paulie]

I agree, in the local constituencies we do have the PR style of voting in that the person with the most votes wins. In the HOP we have FPTP where the largest number of seats/majority forms the government. Just the way it is at the moment. It appears that there may be the chance of change during this government.

Regardless of whom the local MP is, they should do all they can in order to help you within reason if it is a genuine concern/issue. Lionhound hits it on the head when he says that not enough people do speak with their local MPs and raise concerns.

I do think that on the local level most MP's are good and do care about their local area, but the general public have a "them and us" attitude about MP's which I find to be a little unfair. It's unlikely that the local MP can change national policy, but they can address local matters and get results quick.