Europe - In or out?

[peanutpete]

Couldn't disagree more, he knows he is devisive of opinion and I think for once a politician has put their own aspirations behind those of the country.

Bravo Boris

you are joking right marc?
his whole campaingn has been about his aspirations,he know taht Gove fucked him and he would have no chance to become leader (in the future who knows i would not put it passed the stupidity of the uk to vote for the lying scum bag)
do you reall think he cares about being out of the EU this has been a tory bun fight and now we can see the out come

and shaun what do you by this

"Will the remain side now address the issues of why people wanted out in the first place, or will they run around spouting doom and gloom at everyone while doing nothing to help. So far its the latter"

me and every other small to medium buisness owner are the ones who are the back bone of this country and like before the vote and after i bet most of us are working all hours to run buisness and are having sleepless nights with worry, so dont you dare say we are not doing nothing

i keep hearing this but not heard one thing from the people who wanted to leave

[PeeJay]

Perhaps this post should now be closed before anyone falls out, we are meant to be discussing cigars after all. Remember that everyone is entitled to an opinion however worthless you might think it is but friends shouldn't fall out over it

[ValeTudoGuy]

Im not joking, but we can speculate as much as we like and never know the whole truth.

And I don't think anyone has ever accused small and medium business owners of not trying ther best or of not working hard.

Honestly though, I think im so jaded at this point I have 0% fear of the pinch.... But I did grow up in a City who's backbone was Pottery, Steel and Coal and unlike the Southern Banking industry we have never had a Wesminster or European government losing sleep or bailing us out.

[gangstarrrrr]

Im not joking, but we can speculate as much as we like and never know the whole truth.

And I don't think anyone has ever accused small and medium business owners of not trying ther best or of not working hard.

Honestly though, I think im so jaded at this point I have 0% fear of the pinch.... But I did grow up in a City who's backbone was Pottery, Steel and Coal and unlike the Southern Banking industry we have never had a Wesminster or European government losing sleep or bailing us out.

How about the EU grants funnelled towards parts of the country less well off than the others? Yorkshire was due to receive 600m from the EU (that ironically they're asking for assurances for despite voting leave). To say the EU 'government' doesn't do anything for the regions is disingenuous. While we pay in to the budget before getting rebates, these areas are net beneficiaries. The EU didn't cause the decline of those industries, a multitude of factors did.

As for Boris, he's well and truly realised he's been outplayed and outmanoeuvred. He's not stepped down for altruistic reasons, he realised he was polling behind May and Gove. His greatest impact point was as close to the leave decision and if he's polling behind now, it was only going to get worse. Nor did he expect us to have to leave, his master plan revolved around a renegotiation with the EU, a plan laid waste to by the EU. Consequently he didn't want to have to deal with protracted negotiations with the EU, spineless to the max. Cause the mess but then step away from the clean up.

[Shaun]

so dont you dare say we are not doing nothing

It was aimed at people in positions of power... MPs and such who seems to think they can just ignore this result. I do think your view on this is very negative though which I stand by. Im not sure why people would be having sleepless nights over this. The fact is, your business is in exactly the same position now it was before this vote, and I do believe I said it before, this vote was not just about the economy was it, you mention in your other post the EU 'government' well that is what a lot of people voted against, being ruled by unelected bureaucrats in a foreign country.

Some areas get EU funding, some dont. We are net contributers to the EU to the tune of something like ?7billion per year.

[TonyN]

Totally agree with gangstarrrr boris got his way to leave the eu now left us to it.
Made the mess for someone else to clean up
looks like this country at the moment is without a prime minister and an England manager
concerning the England manager nobody seems to want the job.

[ValeTudoGuy]

My point was completely missed, I was saying that I have lived through recessions and the loss of backbone industries all my life and honestly my genuine quality of life rarely goes down. But it also only ever creeps up.

I think many many people feel in the same boat and I also think that theres areas of this country that are let down over and over again. I think this is reflected on a much bigger basis all over Europe whare wealth distribution is even worse than here.

The disproportionate power and bad attitude of Tusk/Junker and their like, combined with the distance of their power creation from our own democratic system makes me honestly believe that there is a genuine case to call them un-democratic.

I have genuine concerns about the EU's ability to change and develop in ways that I agree with, i actually have very strong fears that its just becoming more and more federal and centrally powerful. How long will they prop up failing economies and banks before they centralise the Euro by removing any national banks at all? Once they do that, how long will it be before they further controll national budgets? What comes next, centralised military? True loss of borders? I have absolutely no intention of ever living in a United States of Europe and I pray to god that my children never have to.

[oskihen]

Sorry but yawn. religion and politics best to agree to disagree and get on with life and save such things to our inner thoughts during the quiet moments where we pontificate life's ups and down over a fine cigar and favorite tipple.

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[ValeTudoGuy]

And continue to leave it to career politicians to decide our future?..... No thanks

It's our duty to have an opinion on politics and to hear those of others.

[TonyN]

Heard on the radio if parliament have their way we may not brexit .

[Shaun]

Heard on the radio if parliament have their way we may not brexit .

Its turning into a bit of a farce isnt it.

[sheppsea]

I don't think this is likely, the courts have said that Parlaiment must vote, but it would be a big decision to vote against leaving after the referendum result. The only ones with any sort of mandate to do so would be Scottish and Northern Ireland MPs (and anyone else whose constituency voted to remain)

Remember the majority party in the Commons have been very clear Brexit means Bexit

[Horsebox]

Parliament voting on Brexit would be a true example of sovereignty, something which many leave voters were concerned the UK had lost.


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[sheppsea]

Europe - In or out?

Its turning into a bit of a farce isnt it.

It's was always going to turn into a farce without a clear plan on how to do it from anyone, and we haven't even begun the process to begin the process of leaving the EU

[Shaun]

Parliament voting on Brexit would be a true example of sovereignty, something which many leave voters were concerned the UK had lost.


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and Parliament voting against it would probably trigger civil unrest the likes of which we have never seen before.

They already voted through the referendum and then they voted in the referendum itself, they didnt like the result and now try to go against it.