Europe - In or out?

[peanutpete]

The problem as I see it.... ALL of our politicians on both sides have been exposed for what we secretly knew they were, spiless lily livers

at that I think we can all agree but come on you knew that before the vote and you still trusted them to get us out of the mess

[peanutpete]

Appoint new PM. Invoke article 50 and negotiate I think. Short term uncertainty for hopeful long term gain. Team brexit could do more to reassure the masses.

who wants the job that as I see it is the problem were are our inspirational leaders the ones we can all get behind who could unite the country to get us out of the mess and lead us into a bright new future (if there is indeed one there) you see these things have to be thought about before you make these monumental decisions

[ValeTudoGuy]

Thats the thing, its hard to plan before a referendum, realistically all that has happened is they have asked our opinion and then have to think about it.

We as a people and our media are as much at fault if this does not work. We really need to be talking to our MP's asking the right questions and pushing the right people to the front.

All this sensationalist shite is detracting from what should be happening and will ultimately make things worse.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"..... It might not be a completely true statement, but it's bloody close. We need conviction or we will fail.

[ValeTudoGuy]

Funny how the German economists are publically reminding the people that a slumped market (Their's is currently arguably worse than ours) is the best time to invest yet over here it's just doom and gloom.

[Simon Bolivar]

My sister has just qualified as a nurse..... She estimates she is around 1 in 5 British applicant to manage to do it.

She personally knows qualified British nurses who had career breaks and are desperate to get back in but cant.

Foreign recruitment has DECIMATED a British persons chance of being a nurse.

I have personally seen skilled British workers lose out on jobs to Bulgarian and Polish workers who are willing to work for less money, they do it by registering as self employed, breaking the working time directive and selling grey market goods they import from their own country. Again the Brits cant legaly compete.

And still this is not the reason I voted out..... And yes theres a lot of lazy British scum who never want to work. They would be the first people I would cut out of the loop if I could.

Here's a question someone like Marc might know the answer too. Currently Nurses working for the RCN have been driven towards having degrees, those with only diplomas having been told to do the further training required to be awarded their degree. This no doubts puts many potential candidates off from starting in nursing these day, especially the mature students they are crying out for. But surely the majority of EU & don't for get the Non-EU nurses don't have degrees & perhaps some of those that do, wouldn't be recognised in other parts of our economy. So do most of hte non UK nurses in the NHS have degrees?
Of course you can guess I think degrees in nursing, especially for every nurse is completely unnecessary & just driven by the RCN to drive up nurses wages as they can then be classed as professionals, like the radiologists & physios.

[ValeTudoGuy]

Perhaps Simon, I don't know without talking to my Sister...... I do know that it basically describes how she became a nurse, a degree with quite a lot of basically free work thrown in.. I.E working placements as part of the course.

[trying]

Thats the thing, its hard to plan before a referendum, realistically all that has happened is they have asked our opinion and then have to think about it.

We as a people and our media are as much at fault if this does not work. We really need to be talking to our MP's asking the right questions and pushing the right people to the front.

All this sensationalist shite is detracting from what should be happening and will ultimately make things worse.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself"..... It might not be a completely true statement, but it's bloody close. We need conviction or we will fail.

Indeed, this is the time to work forwards positively for the benefit of all of us.

And worth noting that if you look beyond the the inevitable short term reaction, FTSE and exchange rates are not all doom and gloom, its what markets do.

One of several interesting articles on the subject http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekee.../#70b2654846f8

[ValeTudoGuy]

Indeed, this is the time to work forwards positively for the benefit of all of us.

And worth noting that if you look beyond the the inevitable short term reaction, FTSE and exchange rates are not all doom and gloom, its what markets do.

One of several interesting articles on the subject http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevekee.../#70b2654846f8

It's interesting that German economists are encouraging people to invest while the market slumps and their market was [arguably] affected worse than ours. Yet we just get blasted with negativity.

The silence is also deafening today as the market has stabilised and banks have made gains. And the ? has made small gains agains every currency other than the AUD.

When did we become so broken and pessimistic as a society?

[PeeJay]

It's interesting that German economists are encouraging people to invest while the market slumps and their market was [arguably] affected worse than ours. Yet we just get blasted with negativity.

The silence is also deafening today as the market has stabilised and banks have made gains. And the ? has made small gains agains every currency other than the AUD.

When did we become so broken and pessimistic as a society?

The snowflake generation its called Marc

[gangstarrrrr]

It's interesting that German economists are encouraging people to invest while the market slumps and their market was [arguably] affected worse than ours. Yet we just get blasted with negativity.

The silence is also deafening today as the market has stabilised and banks have made gains. And the ? has made small gains agains every currency other than the AUD.

When did we become so broken and pessimistic as a society?

The fallout still continues - just because we see a bounce back in equity markets, the volatility is still there. Sterling is still down considerably vs the major currencies. And companies issuing debt today and yesterday are having to pay more for their borrowing. Not a big surprise given the outcome.

[ValeTudoGuy]

I never said it didn't, I was just pointing out the difference between our outlook and the German one.

In a way you helped to prove my point

[Shaun]

Lets not forget there was more to this vote than the economy. For many the short term pain is worth the long term gain.

[gangstarrrrr]

Sorry, difficult to be cheery and happy when

- the economy will enter recession
- my industry will see uncertainty and job losses
- my property price will fall
- my living expenses will rise
- borrowing costs will rise
- there's a rise in racist and xenophobic abuse

All for something that I can't see the benefit of.

[ValeTudoGuy]

You cant be certain of all those things. But hey, if you want to be nelly negative then go ahead, I on the other hand intend to be positive and to try and contribute to the countries success in any way I can.

I hope as many people as possible take my outlook

[Emaresee]

POsitive mental attitude is of course essential. German outlook in buying at the bottom is of course sensible. It is also an attempt to both encourage investment, over saving which withdraws cash from the economy, which in turn promotes confidence and growth.

I dont know about you but my firm hauled up the skirt hems on spending 6 months ago in order to be more prepared for uncertainty. It will not see us through a recession unharmed though. We are hunkering down and being prepared to fight. I dont see it being about wealth creation now for at least 3 years, and even then the whole article 50 gig could extend this for far longer as the economy grinds cash on redefining our position and fuelling the massive amount of administration required to support the change.

i want the best for the country and all in it, regrettably i see us pushing ourselves backwards before we go forwards. Not sure this debarcle has put us any closer to finding gears 3-6.... We're stalled and struggling to find first....

The only sectors to grow from this position in the immediate term will be lawyers and the public sector....and its flogging a few newspapers at the moment too. And the pub sec wont be seeing the promised 350m to the nhs per week ever in my estimation.

And there is the rub....for this to be succesful we need political leadership that has the balls to put domestic growth first now. Is there anyone that has that look about them?

If so, tHis likely means a return to a massive public sector deficit, to fuel investment, and give business the confidence that they arent doing it all alone. But last time that happened we all saved more as interest rates were up, and we caught a cold on subprime.... Both Brown and Darling some of the countries most talemted chancellors had their hands on the wheel.... And they couldnt make it stick.

i'm not suggesting it was much better before, but austerity was steadily working out inefficiencies, and steadily wrestling back our deficit. Feels like we're in a vacuum... And nature abhores a vacuum. It sucks in whatever it can to fill it. The outbursts of xenophobia would have happened in either outcome... Idiots cant keep a lid on themselves.... But we need a plan, and we need a charismatic leader to land it.

Wonder if Canada fancy sharing its PM, or Obama fancies a turn on the otherside of the special relationship??!