What do cigar smokers vote?

[jack83]

I see your point and I do agree partly. But the question is where to draw the line. Imagine every country would do as you suggested, just for public sector vehicles. Now take a Chinese or American company that has a guaranteed market from the public sector that is 10-100 times as big as the UKs market. Those companies now have a pretty huge advantage over the UK company that tries to compete with it.

In fact, this problem already exists and there are trade laws that try to prohibit that in the spirit of a fair competition.

I know what you mean and in an ideal world that would make total sense. But where to draw the line? When does a well meant help for the local economy become a subsidy that only sustains a company that is not competitive anymore? It is pretty much what Thatcher did with coal. (though I disagree with the way it was done and I would have never privatised trains water and electricity) You have an industry that can't compete anymore on a free market.

If Triumph was competitive in price and quality with Japan, the police would ride Triumph.

I would rather invest more money in infrastructure and boost any part of the UK but London and most importantly, make education free. We need more highly qualified people that have fresh ideas. We can't compete in production with Asia. Innovation and creativity is what we are strong in. That's where we have to focus on.

I agree with pretty much all of that... going down the road of protecting local companies can very quickly lead to subsidisation and reliance on that protection to the detriment of the consumer (in this example, the British taxpayer). Also, totally agree that we (as a country) should play to our strengths.

[Sean]

Boring..... I think for a working class person like myself no matter who runs the government we will always get shit on.

P.s the boring was about u mate just politics annoy me

[kevjb64]

Every other election I have been 110% clear who I would vote for , I have been a one party man all my life . This time the best description I have heard about trying to decide between the parties is that it is the same as trying to pick up a turd from the clean end .

[Niela]

Boring..... I think for a working class person like myself no matter who runs the government we will always get shit on.

P.s the boring was about u mate just politics annoy me

I assume you meant 'was NOT about...'?

What's interesting though is that a lot of people say they don't care for politics, mainly because they feel they have no say or their voice doesn't count or that it makes no different. But even though they don't care, they still have an opinion on it and often a strong one as well. Though you find it boring, you still felt like actually saying that you find it boring and therefore participate in the discussion. Would you have felt compelled to write that you find a topic boring if I had started a thread to discuss the performance of the Finnish Equestrian team during the last competition?

[Niela]

It looks like my initial thoughts on cigar smokers mostly voting Torries has been proofed right. 😀

[anz3001]

Ive never voted before, a shall this time around though and it'll be a tory vote.

As an employer I always have trouble filling positons. I'll not have anyone tell me there are no jobs.
Welfare was way out of control and the Tories have tackled the lazy British, of which I can assure you, there are many.

[Niela]

Ive never voted before, a shall this time around though and it'll be a tory vote.

As an employer I always have trouble filling positons. I'll not have anyone tell me there are no jobs.
Welfare was way out of control and the Tories have tackled the lazy British, of which I can assure you, there are many.

Plus you smoke cigars, so as our poll shows you are statistically prone to vote Torie.

Joking aside, I see your point of view and I agree that there are plenty of people that could use a kick in the butt. But I am not sure that I agree we weaken a support system that is very helpful for many that are simply out of luck and not lazy at all. Whatever you do, some people will always find a way to abuse it.

[tippexx]

That way there would be no incentive for bribes and the industry couldn't buy policies by funding the parties election campaigns.

Wow really! But hang on a minute, isn't money the stuff that we give to already rich Arab Princes to convince them to buy our aeroplanes?

And here at home, if we paid footballer wages, none of the duplicious, power-crazed, lying buggers that make up the House of Commons would ever again look to pocket a brown paper envelope or take up a future Directorship in return for influence? ..... I think you'ld have more chance of landing Santa Claus as Speaker.

[Simon Bolivar]

Firstly congrats on a very civil debate guys secondy, wish we had better leaders of our parties, how would nail there balls to a policy & stick to it. Don't think I'll surprise anyone as our token Daily Mail reader, that'll I be voting Tory as usual. Don't rate Cameron apart from the fact I'd rather have him representing us at international events than any of the alternatives. There is a dearth of quality politicians in our country, maybe paying more would attract a better standard but don't bet on it! I would give them ?120K but no expenses & that means travel, accommodation & hiring staff. Suddenly i think you'd find them travelling more frugally & actually mixing with the people who vote from them. Give them vouchers to stay in Premier Inn/ Holiday Express style hotels in London & let the Travelling MPs stay there, or let them pay out of their salary if they want to stay somewhere else.

[Niela]

Wow really! But hang on a minute, isn't money the stuff that we give to already rich Arab Princes to convince them to buy our aeroplanes?

And here at home, if we paid footballer wages, none of the duplicious, power-crazed, lying buggers that make up the House of Commons would ever again look to pocket a brown paper envelope or take up a future Directorship in return for influence? ..... I think you'ld have more chance of landing Santa Claus as Speaker. [emoji2]

Of course more money is always tempting but what I was aiming at were not brown envelopes but more blatant forms of bribery. For example if an government official involved in agriculture also works as a member of board of a company that is involved in agriculture. I have also seen cases where members of government went from a panel that decides which arms deals are happening only to work in arms companies a month after their retirement
And maybe even more importantly, the issue of 'donations' to parties has to be fixed. At the moment policy only considers the issues of the top 10% of the population. The top 1% gets policies tailored to them.

[Niela]

Firstly congrats on a very civil debate guys secondy, wish we had better leaders of our parties, how would nail there balls to a policy & stick to it. Don't think I'll surprise anyone as our token Daily Mail reader, that'll I be voting Tory as usual. Don't rate Cameron apart from the fact I'd rather have him representing us at international events than any of the alternatives. There is a dearth of quality politicians in our country, maybe paying more would attract a better standard but don't bet on it! I would give them ?120K but no expenses & that means travel, accommodation & hiring staff. Suddenly i think you'd find them travelling more frugally & actually mixing with the people who vote from them. Give them vouchers to stay in Premier Inn/ Holiday Express style hotels in London & let the Travelling MPs stay there, or let them pay out of their salary if they want to stay somewhere else.

I am not sure why we all have politicians so much that we feel they have to be punished at every opportunity, yet keep voting for the same people again and again. If you are a loyal Torrie and we have a Torrie government, then surely you should be happy with the lot that is in charge? Otherwise, why did you vote for them last election?

I would never want to do that job. Imagine the pressure those guys are under. I once saw a comparison of photos of world leaders at the beginning and end of their turns. That job makes you age tremendously.

As for the daily mail, though I have to say I am not a big fan, I would never recommend to rely on one newspaper alone. Better to mix them up and maybe get some foreign media as well that provides an outside view to get a more complete picture of events. Because let's face it, you can twist every story every way. And twisting stories is something everybody is doing. The daily mail as much as I the guardian.

[Rob Royston]

Unfortunately everyone I know votes for the same parties again and again for the simple reason 'that's who I have always voted for'. I think that there will never be change because people don't change. A current popular party could say 'f you all. Tax doubled. Salary frozen for all' and people will still vote for them because they always have and it's 'their party'
I know that's not everyone, but the majority of my friends and family this applies to.

[ValeTudoGuy]

I haven't been terribly dissatisfied with this coalition especially given what they inherited and the subsequent economic downturn that was hardly their fault either. I agree with a few UKIP policies BUT they have FAR from the depth of policy to be a serious decision IMO.... And then there's the bloody idiots they have to keep making excuses for that are in the party.

I ignore anything Left of Liberal because onyone who thinks in the modern world you can just tax the successful to drag along the poor and freeloaders is delusional... Why can't they see we need successful companies that can provide good employment? And that big companies and the seriously rich will just shift their HQ abroad if we turn the tax screws on them? Where would that leave us?

I also think that this talk of the NHS privatisation argument is a load of crap too. It would probably be run better and there would be a level of accountability if there was proper privatisation..... Unlike this current semi private, locum doctors have us by the balls and supplies procurement is a shambles that depends on the area you live crap.

Build the country up from the top, but don't forget the little guys.... I think only a coalition can give this.

Where's the box for a preferred coalition? Cmon its a brave new world.... one party governments are soooo last generation.

[Niela]

I ignore anything Left of Liberal because onyone who thinks in the modern world you can just tax the successful to drag along the poor and freeloaders is delusional... Why can't they see we need successful companies that can provide good employment? And that big companies and the seriously rich will just shift their HQ abroad if we turn the tax screws on them? Where would that leave us?

I also think that this talk of the NHS privatisation argument is a load of crap too. It would probably be run better and there would be a level of accountability if there was proper privatisation..... Unlike this current semi private, locum doctors have us by the balls and supplies procurement is a shambles that depends on the area you live crap.

Build the country up from the top, but don't forget the little guys.... I think only a coalition can give this.

Where's the box for a preferred coalition? Cmon its a brave new world.... one party governments are soooo last generation.

I would definately disagree with you on not listening to any opinion that does not match yours. It is fine to disagree, but to not even give it a chance? Nobody is right all the time and I believe there is something to be learned in everybody's opinion.

Building the country from the top up is called "trickle down economy". The theory that if the wealthy and big companies are well of, the money will trickle down to the less fortunate. Sadly that is not working. The idea was around when Thatcher was in power already. Look at the stock market. It's going through the roof for years again now. The richest people in the country are better off than 10 years ago and still, the average worker makes less money. If we only looked at the interests of companies and the rich, workers would still have 60h weeks and 5 days off a year like it was 120 years ago.

As for the NHS. I think privatisation of fundamental infrastructure and services is the biggest mistake done in the western world. First of all, health care should only serve one purpose, to help people. When you privatise it, it will only serve one purpose, to make money. That is the nature of capitalism. And while that works well for the industry, I think we all agree that our doctors should have us in mind and not money when they treat us.

Let me give you an example. In Germany the national rail system is still owned by the government. (Thogh they tried to get rid of it many times) The trains run at 200mph to all major cities and conect rural areas without too many gaps in the network. They run on time (mostly) and are clean and in good conditions. Now here is the thing. You can buy a yearly ticket for the ENTIRE network, including high speed trains AND you can ride public transport in most major cities with one ticket that costs less than ?4000. That money doesn't even buy you a commuter ticket in a shitty and overcrowded train from Brighton to London.

Now you might say that in that case the tax payer has to pay the cost. And that is true of course. However, let me give you another example. I looked that the total spending of TFL for 2014. Then divided that figure by about half the population of greater London. (excluding children, unemployed and elderly) If we had a public transport tax in London that everybody had to pay, it would cost you something between ?120-200. That is the price of a monthly travel card for me right now. In addition you could also safe time and money with ticket machines and gates.

Sorry, this went on for quite a bit. I find it hard to be concise sometimes.

[ValeTudoGuy]

I do listen.... and then I totally ignore it.

If you think the NHS is about care and not money then I would disagree. The NHS is a cash cow for people at the top and for all the staff in positions that are hard to fill.

.

Also I unfortunately believe that the public transport issues in the UK run much deeper than it's owners.