Busted

[Robusto]

Some friends took their 20 year old son to a recent festival. When they were there, the son was arrested for cannabis possession. His Dad is a Policeman.

So...

We talked about this last night - Me, my missus and my two lads (16, 21) - and I said I thought smoking a couple of joints at home was less harmful than going into town and getting tanked up.

There is loads more I could write but I'll leave it at that and see what people's opinions are about this because I'm interested.

[Lascaux]

it really does depend on the person, just like alcohol.

i know regular smokers who are holding down successful jobs and relationships
my brother who suffers from epilepsy got into smoking heavily for a long time and he was diagnosed schizophrenic. he'd have fits that hospitalised him directly after coming off weed binges.

people that are susceptible to pyschological problems i strongly believe should stay well away from weed.

but even for the very stable, the problem with most joint smokers i know is that it becomes a solo thing in heavy use. they become detached and reclused and then the problems start to come.

if you can restrict yourself to one every now and then, i feel it can be beneficial to health and mind.

[Pantomimehorse]

I think what Joe says is true, and can actually be applied to booze too, some people can have a drink and sometimes too much and all they do is have trouble getting home, others get mental and want to break things and hit people...

[TJCoro]

Nature's Gift!

This debate has been going on for years in North America and all the arguments have been debated over, and over again .

So far, the religious right has been able to surpress legalization.

But I'm betting that under the new administration up north, the the good ol' USA will legalize pot before the UK.

Any takers?

[Drewmidorn]

I'm going to preface this with the fact that i can't stand dope.I hate the smell of it and for someone who really isn't phased by anything coming out of Partagas, Laguito etc a couple of tokes and I feel sick as a dog so I've never got involved.

That said....

I'm pretty sure that, like all things, in moderation its just another one of natures joys for many people. I've known more people turn nasty, do stupid things, be seriously ill (and i don't mean just the illness of a nights excess but sclerosis and mental problems) and generally physically and emotionally hurt themselves and others through alcohol. So I think let the proles have their dope... just don't smoke it in my house please.

Now cocaine... there's another bug bear of mine. I think most people are self centered and arrogant enough without getting stuck into that junk. I'v worked with a lot of people who liked their marching powder and when they were sober they were great people and very talented.... when they were on the snow they were vile and shit!

Now where did i leave that baggie of crystal meth?

D

[daverave999]

Not sure what you're asking really Bryan?

In my opinion, all drugs should be legalised.
People use them regardless of legality, so we might as well make it safer to do so. Their current legal status ensures that the user has no way of knowing what strength the drug is or if it contains any contaminants, plus the risk of arrest, and the need to mix with people who are often involved in other criminal behaviour to ensure supply. The argument that there would be an increase in use if it was legalised has no basis in fact. Note that cannabis usage went down when it was moved to Class C, and that the Netherlands has lower rates of teenage drug use than the UK. Oh, and how well Prohibition worked in the USA 1920-1933.

As I understand it, the majority of property crime is perpetrated by drug addicts. I see this as a direct consequence of having to pay black market prices for something that costs pence to produce. It appears that those with opioid addictions can live relatively normal lives provided they get their fix-it's the illegal aspect of their chosen drug that causes the social problems ie. ostracism from mainstream society, getting sucked into criminality, etc. Compare cigarette smoking. We all know how tetchy cigarette smokers get without their hourly fix. No problem, because they can just go and buy some in a shop.

The argument that cannabis has gotten stronger is often used as evidence to keep it illegal or make it more illegal. This makes no sense. It's actually safer as you need to smoke less to achieve the same high. Compare whisky and beer. People can tell the difference in strength, and consequently can work out for themselves not to drink whisky by the pint. It's called auto-titration. You stop smoking when you reach the desired level of intoxication. Trust adults to make their own decisions for themselves.

I think the argument that people shouldn't be allowed to take drugs because they are 'dangerous' is flawed. Numerous drugs are available over the counter eg. paracetamol that are more toxic than a lot of commonly used recreational drugs. Compare allergy/death/whatever-you-like rates to penicillin with those of MDMA. See how much LSD is required to reach a toxic level. The problem seems to be that drugs are fun, and that shouldn't be allowed. It's seen as a moral argument. How dare the Government tell people what they can do with their bodies. Is this any different to telling gay people they can't have sex?

On preview, Drew's point about cokeheads being twats is a fair one, but lots of people are like that sober. It may be antisocial but any criminal behaviour is still the fault of the individual rather than the drug if they chose to take it.

[EDIT] Sorry for the rant, but I feel very strongly about this.

[Robusto]

Dave.

My cards on the table first.

I've been around dope a lot, and know people from each slice of my life who use it modestly to immodestly.

I have no experience of dope. I've never tried it, despite being handed it. Not even at University where, at the end of the 70s, there was a fair bit about.

Funny for a cigar smoker, that, as Drew put it.

I don't want to quote unquote everything that has been written above but lots rings bells.

I have very strong feelings about the misuse and over-consumption of alcohol because I had to live with a series of car crashes because of it when growing up. I am not anti-alcohol, but I lay off it. My kids have never seen me half-pissed, let alone pissed. Yet they see me smoking cigars - and if they objected to that it would be tough shit, frankly. Buty they don't.

My kids have loads of contemporaries doing too much dope. At the park. Behind the swimmimg pool. Behind Asda, sort of thing. And they are averse to it. They say these friends of theirs say that they can't fit into society and are outcasts and the drugs get them through it. Pretty heavy at 16.

One of my two had very very bad reactions to dope at Uni himself and says he had panic attacks. The younger one mixes with a lot of folk off their heads at raves and the like, but says to us he won't touch any of the stuff.

I suppose I wrote this because we were talking about it a lot at home, and my wife - a nurse - "scares" our sons off in a way because of tales of psychosis induced by potent skunk and stuff. The "higher" drugs we talked about but my boys appear to have no desire to go there.

This all seems, maybe, that we sit around like quiffy nightmares debating things. Nah. We were just talking.

Both my boys said they are worried / would be worried about coming home wrecked or stoned and "shaming" us (sort of thing), and I was amazed to hear that because neither of us comes on very heavily or lays down the law unduly. We're pretty laid-back types. I think the lad we know who has got his Policemen Dad into slight shit by association should have thought about that, but he has moved from an occasional user to a steady stream of joints every day.

My kids think that's crap.

Anyway... I said I would have expected them to have tried dope by their age, given what we have to deal with statistically in schools, and in the school grounds.

And I still think a couple of joints would be less harmful than a good amount of beer.

But it is all relative.

A potent Bolivar might be a joy to some of us - and a knocking-out nightmare to others.

I am far happier teaching sex education with Dutch Caps springing around the room and shit than drugs education. "Anti-nicotine" education, as it has been given to me.

In any case, sex and drugs are taught by outsiders who are experienced. I just do a nice sanitised of the rock and roll in my classes.

[Ramon]

As I'm subject to compulsory drug testing in my current occupation, and it can happen any time, any place, eg I've been CDT'd in Canada and Kenya I don't touch the stuff. One positive and you're out, no second chance. But even if I wasn't, I'm not interested in the stuff. I wouldn't even know where to get anything mentioned.

As for schools and drugs, that really puzzles me. When I was at school there was no drugs of any sort. Even if there were, we could never have afforded them. How do kids have the money to spend on dope and all the rest now? Poor parenting skills I guess, just chucking money at their kids and letting them roam the streets at all hours.

[Drewmidorn]

Talking of drug testing I taught songwriting at Maidstone prison for a while (don't ask!) and they brought in random drug testing for the inmates.

The brilliance of this plan is that marijuana stays in your system for about 30 days and heroin only for about 4... so they stopped smoking dope and started taking smack as they thought it would bring down the chance of being caught. Genius!

[nicwing]

I am very strongly against advising other people on any kind of drugs because I have so little experience. My kids (although very young) will be advised against based on our experience (Myself and the lady wife) but if they are anything like me they will try it and then make up their own minds.

I hate getting drunk it makes me feel like shit and I avoid it these days.

Have had very limited and somewhat distant contacts with many types of drugs but never floated my boat and I hope my kids will be the same, We work hard to educate them that way even now.

I have a friend who did lots of drink and Columbian Marching powder and he turned into a very nasty piece of work for about 8 years, lost his job, wife and dignity but he's back now and I know I prefer him straight!

I'm not an addictive personality (drink, drugs or smoking) which is why Cigars suit me so well, now where is that Reyes I have been saving?

[Kdot]

hmm...tough one, I usually take a couple of different stances on the old drugs chat the first being that all should be legalized and be taxed like fags and booze, after all people have a choice.

The second is that the lot should be banned because of abuse, addiction and wider consequences, smack being the no.1 culprit.

Weed should not be taken lightly either. Its a mile away from the junkie drugs but still has its affects. It can be used sensibly but Those with mental issues (sometimes unrealised) can be pushed over the edge. I guess the same can be said for booze too, but most seem to turn a blind eye to it as its seen as socially acceptable and generates a lot of income via tax for the Government.

IMO alcohol causes more damage to health and society than weed ever could, when was the last time you heard someone go on a rampage for being too stoned? As weed is illegal, the quality suffers, have you seen the stuff they mix with hash? (shoe polish, plastic, my mate even pulled out a fag end once!) and even commercial weed is sprayed with chemicals to give it a higher yield or wax and powders to add weight...

PS I don't smoke weed (anymore) and drink only drink occasionally

[Boss Hog]

A great post and a subject I've experienced very closely from both sides of the fence.
Everyones got good vaild points (especially Lascaux) here so far, I hope I can add to it.


Firstly, people around me.
I have family members that have smoked it regularly every day for at least 10 years and by that I mean 3-4 joints a day.
For all intense purposes I believe it has turned them into a incoherant vegetable.
Their speech has degraded into a slury drawl amongst the paranoia.
They smoke before during and after work, god only knows how. Life seems to revolve round it.
There is no ambition left and they are oblivious as to the downward spiral into the 7 levels of hell. They are 35 and should be in a position of building a comfortable life.
Another member is 16 and has been smoking it for a few years and it can be clearly seen the effect it can have on a young under-developed mind.
They have been in and out the courts for serious assault charges, no qualifications, no ambition in life or the capability to understand the meaning of it.
There is no doubt it has turned him into a violent feral street chav.
Fortunatley we rarely see that side of the family much. Mainly to be blunt adn snobby were better than them!!

In this instance National Service I'm guessing would probably be the only option to turn his life around.

Now me,I started smoking it off an on since the age of about 25, until the age of 35.
I'm now 37. The last 5 years of that became quite heavy with it due to some bad life events that nearly took me over the edge.
The world started to close in and every day I couldnt wait to get home and light one up.
It got to the point where I got hold of some extremely potent skunk weed. I started with small amounts and it got me totally blanked which was just what I wanted but with in a few weeks
it was like I built up a tolerance to it and started putting more in each time. I started drinking heavily with it to get extra trashed if I had had a bad day.
I dont actually remember why or how I got off it, Although I think that was the reason. I just couldnt remember things even simply stuff that I'd done for
years and when you have multi million pound computer systems at your finger tips it can be quite dangerous.
I must have one of those personalities as I can still have cravings for it now, but strangley enough not cigarettes and can resist them both now but it will always be there.

I consider myself to a certain extent quite strong minded and the pull this stuff has to take you down is execeptional and half the time you dont know it's happening.
If I had taken this in my teens I dont think I would have come out the other side of it.
I still think it should be legalized, but contained in controlled areas,
I never used to believe all the people that said it only leads to the stronger stuff, in some cases it can. I've peered over that precipice.
Although coke fuelled orgy with a load of cheap hookers and champagne has always been on my bucket list.

William Blake once wrote "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom" and that kinda of strikes a note with me.

[G-man]

Isn't it amazing the Drain bamage it causes?
Most people from my teens still get high on 1 substance or other.
They say it hasn't changed them a bit,Correct they are the same
Pot smokin coke heads from 1970 that never grew up.
Anyone should be allowed to do what they wish behind close doors at home.Now don't get me wrong,Ismoke enough Pot to probably pay for 10 cars.
Enough blow to own 6 New homes At 300,00 a piece.
After giving the shit up 5 years later I got my life(brain cells) back in order and was able to do the things most average people do. My memory improved and my daily chores be came easier.I excelled at my job and got promotion after promotion.
If U choose to get high,COOL just don't let it effect me ,Cause then we have a problem!!! Just my $.02 worth.

[Robusto]

This is very interesting, guys.

I came close to trying dope at one point because I began to believe that I was the only adult I knew who had never smoked it. And if you read the Observer and watch certain Channel 4 shows, you can be bombarded with stories about noncey dinner parties of highly paid professional types skinning up with King Dong Rastas round the same dinner tables.

Sometimes you think you should jump in there.

Then there's the muso's devil temptation angle. Just because Ray Charles spazzed up on all sorts, so should you if you want to be a 'better' musician.

I have played hundreds of times with a particular musician who told me the usual stuff about smoke one off, go outside and LISTEN TO THE BIRDS, MAN. Not by coincidence do I see this chap arriving late for gigs, forgetting his equipment, sleeping for hours, driving to Faversham instead of Folkestone. I see INDOLENCE written on his forehead. And instead of being a mystical musician, he's a complete twat.

Then there's my brother. He's ten years older than me. He has taken so much varied shit in his life that he is trapped in a shambolic Council house in Shitville. He's never held down a full-time job. The last time I saw him, his main downstairs room was full of piled-up wooden pallets (sic? Those wooden frames that things are piled up on in warehouses). I couldn't drink a cup of tea from his cups because they were caked in crud. Sorry about this bit, Stevieboy. He was so out of it that I had to sit for two hours watching Frank Zappa videos whilst he looked at them with wide eyes.

BUT,,,

I cannot accept the BAN IT ALL merchants.

Sometimes anti-drink people are brought in to where I work to "counsel" the children. I have sat through so many shitty presentations by recovered alcoholics who SCREAM at 13 and 14 year olds not to take to the bottle.

Most of the things I am party to in life I see with a Catherine Wheel Smirk going round and round behind my eyes. I'm really not a very seriously-minded chap. You have just got to laugh at all this nonsense we travel through.

These anti-drink merchants simulataneously make me wet myself with supressed laughter AND scare the shit out of me, It's just like Royston Veasey pops in for the day.

I LOVE IT!!!

I find the sight of people of my age who are regular dope smokers just appalling. There is a dope 'look', I think.

I try to love everyone, cause trouble to nobody... but dope fiends are as ugly as oldsters wearing crap trainers.

They just aren't chic, my loves.

Nah. I'm semi-erect when I smoke a potent Havana, so I shall be keeping all other drugs, smoke-able or not, well away.

[Robusto]

Drugs? Schools?