MRN 2nd Edition

[PeeJay]

Quick question. If this book was $500 instead of $5000 would we be having the same debate. Is the issue that it is overpriced for what it is or that it is out-of-reach?

Good question, I think $500 would still be out of reach for the majority of forum members

[sheppsea]

Quick question. If this book was $500 instead of $5000 would we be having the same debate. Is the issue that it is overpriced for what it is or that it is out-of-reach?

For me the disappointment is that $5,000 is not just out of reach, is beyond even aspiring to - it is truly an eye watering amount of money to spend on what is ultimately a book

If it were $500 it would be something I could give consideration to buying, its a lot, but not completely out of my league.

I personally don't have anything against the cost of the book, he can charge what he likes for it, and it is something I would love to own and I daresay if I could afford it I would buy it, but the idea that he charges that much for the book because he is saving the world is delusional (I think VTG expressed my thoughts on this perfectly)

[Sean]

$500 i would still not justify paying that for a book i think that good be spent so much better

[ValeTudoGuy]

Quick question. If this book was $500 instead of $5000 would we be having the same debate. Is the issue that it is overpriced for what it is or that it is out-of-reach?

Completely over priced for what it is.... Let's be honest, ?6k is punk change over a liftime... But not for something that is realistically worth a sixth or less of that.

The claims of the man are a different matter all together.

[tippexx]

I don't care much about the book, or about the price or Ron Min Nee to be honest, but good luck to him I'm behind anyone trying to do something new and creative. What I do object to however is the pre-launch braggadocio delivered by the trolly-boy that's trying to convince me that something I haven't seen is already a masterpiece of photography, print production and scholarship. I'm a design professional, and so far the Hansel and Gretel furniture and the pdf test pages haven't passed the Tippexx 'So what?' test. Hopefully the real book pages will be cleaner, brighter and the layouts better put together and the support texts not written by someone fresh out of the Benny Hill Chinese Menu School of English.

The BOTL World is a small one and what you lot do with your money is your business, myself I'm happy with the Sortment fur Habanos-Liehaber I got for free from Germany, and anything I want to know about cigars I'm not afraid to ask for, and who knows after October one or two of you may even have a new book to provide them from.

[ValeTudoGuy]

This business of two prices is what particularly bothers me.


It reeks of an elitist inner circle, what it says to me is that the producer can turn a healthy profit at ?3k (my guess is north of 200%) but because he's marketing it as the cigar worlds unobtainuim, then your going to have to grease his palms to the tune of a whole 100% more than mates rates for an invitation to his party.


Now here is me being blunt again, making the furniture (and the furniture is an important part of this package IMO.) out of Bamboo Flooring (His video, not mine.) is simply offensive.... It's offensive to me as a consumer and it's offensive to the skills of the hard working Cuban artisans who make the beautiful limited edition Humi's which are featured in this very book!


Finally, any pretence of this being a charitable endeavour is hogwash... It's the pastime of a man with enough cash and sway to amass a huge collection of desirable items and now he wants to gain the admiration of those who are willing to sing his tune.... Is there anything wrong with this??? Not in particular, worse things are done daily, though it doesn't fit in with my morals.


If it were me and I'm not saying for one moment I have the gumption or drive to pull off a project this big (So actually well done on that note.) . I would have initially brought out a wide release of standard production and normally priced books, so that everyone can feel included and then produced a couple thousand genuinely "heirloom" pieces produced by the greatest artisans available in the country I was honouring, openly state that I was pricing it way way way over cost.. Then let the big spenders trample over themselves to get them, before proceeding to dump the profits directly into the infrastructure of the lives of the people in the cigar industry that need it the most... I.E. Those guys that produce the cigars we all covet.


I would do this because if I had a few million dollars to spend amassing and cataloging a collection of Cuban cigars.... Frankly, it's the least I could do.


TLDR: 6 Beautiful books and a Bamboo stool do not cost ?3000 to make, they don't cost ?1000, so let's not pretend they did. The profit margin is what's offensive here....

Arlin Liss made and Sold these pieces of art for $3500 that leaves $1500 at half price for the cost of the books, or $6500 at full price.... I know what product I think is offering TRUE value... And it isn't the IKEA looking bamboo jobbie.

[Sean]

And breathe now marc :-)

[ValeTudoGuy]

Sorry, I should learn to leave things well alone.

[Sean]

What the boards are for mate expressing your voice

[Sgt_Banter]

I agree with you Marc but I think such is the nature of more expensive products like cigars and whisky, that they tend to appeal to the 'elite'. I say if someone with too much money wishes to pay over the odds for something because they can, then at least someone (hopefully more deserving) is profitting from it

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

[Simon Bolivar]

Ok, despite it appearing most have already made up our minds up on here & appear unlikely to change them, I'll just through a couple of thoughts in for your due consideration.
Firstly, the idea that only we can know what we like best & we don't need anybody else telling us how one cigar tastes and whether it's bettter or worse than another cigar. This really amazes me. Isn't one of the best sections of the club the Review posts? Aren't we interested to hear how other members find a particular cigar? If you did a scan of these reviews, I am sure you'll find dozens of other members who have said 'well I am going to give that one a try now'. If someone raves about a cigar you have tried several of & you hated them, it's unlikely to change your mind but aren't the ones we are most interested in the ones we haven't tried yet? When we walk into the next cigar shop & are met by an array of wares looking for a familiar brand, isn't one that has recently been showcased on our forum likely to influance your choice? If not why are we bothering to do the reviews? Or is it more of a case that whilst we are happy to read other peoples reviews, we wouldn't want to pay for them?

Secondly the cost. There are various trades of people that we pay for their advice, whether they be finnancial advisors, independant insurance salesmen, pension advisors ect. We don't have to pay these guys, we can read the free sites on the web or we can hope that someone who has more experience in these matters than us are at least qualified to offer an opinion; it's still up to us to chose to follow their advice or discount it. Love him or hate him MRN does have a vast amount of experience in smoking & collecting Havana cigars. If anyone can claim to be a reasonable independant expert than he probably can, (unlike the CA judging panel) just look at the first edition, no one else has even got close to producing such a work.

Now any cigar book you have ever brought (& I assume we all have brought a few) the author has offered his opinions, some of whom may have had quite limited experience with NC's or with Havanas but have mentioned both in thier books. We paid for those books & if we read them with an open mind, we can appreciate this is their opinion & if we try one suggestion & it doesn't measure up, do we disbelieve everything he says or give a few more suggestions ago?

I would think nearly every author with the exception of JKR, has spent far more hrs writing & preparing their book than they ever got back in finnancial terms compared with the minimum wage. If you considered the hrs of research, writing, photography, proofing, preparation for publication ect & then considered the money that's left after the publishing costs & other expenses; then the rest is what his readers are prepared to pay him for his time to have produced this encylopaedia. Hour for hour, I would suggest the good doctor would have been better finnacially rewarded looking after private patients in Hong kong, if finnancial reward was his only goal.

[ValeTudoGuy]

I would think nearly every author with the exception of JKR, has spent far more hrs writing & preparing their book than they ever got back in finnancial terms compared with the minimum wage. If you considered the hrs of research, writing, photography, proofing, preparation for publication ect & then considered the money that's left after the publishing costs & other expenses; then the rest is what his readers are prepared to pay him for his time to have produced this encylopaedia. Hour for hour, I would suggest the good doctor would have been better finnacially rewarded looking after private patients in Hong kong, if finnancial reward was his only goal.

Forgetting that he has already made a bunch from his earlier publications, of which the largest amount of work for this latest release was already sitting there waiting for him to transfer it to this book.

If he sold all 2000 pieces at ?3000, which he won't because the vast majority will be ?6000 as we know... But let's forget that for the moment.

Say he is making a 100% markup at ?3000, he will be making much more than that I can assure you... But let's assume he isn't just for now.

that's ?3 Million pounds of profit.

Now let's say it took him 20 years of solid non stop work to produce this work, it didn't and he wasn't exactly working in a coal mine while he was working... But let's forget that for now.

Then he made ?150,000 per year for those 20 years of work.

In reality for this work he will likely be making at least ?4,500 on every full price unit, or ?9 Million pounds = ?450,000 per year for a 20 year period.

And this isn't even considering the fact that he will most likely keep a number of units back for himself to drip feed into the market once the value rockets.

His business plan is sound and I don't think anybody is disputing that fact.

[cigarmo]

Can we all chip in and buy a copy ?

[butternutsquashpie]

Can we all chip in and buy a copy ?

iunno MoMan...... Marc kept telling me to forget things. now all the numbers are jumbled up in my braaaaaain
why do i have to work in a coal mine for 20 years for a copy of the books??




Note: I read what you all said and absorbed it. i'm not some slackjawed yokle! interesting stuff, gents. especially the moderation in moderation!

[cigarmo]

iunno MoMan...... Marc kept telling me to forget things. now all the numbers are jumbled up in my braaaaaain
why do i have to work in a coal mine for 20 years for a copy of the books??




Note: I read what you all said and absorbed it. i'm not some slackjawed yokle! interesting stuff, gents. especially the moderation in moderation!

its ok butters just head for the light or the one in the middle !