Benefits Street

[Sean]

And that kills the lie about people in Liverpool being lazy scroungers, well done Sean.

No problem mate just annoys me when people get all kinds of benefits for being fat lazy and cant be arsed getting a job i work all the hours godsend so my missus can look after my son who has cerebral palsy but i dont complain you just get on with it.

[Puff Scotty]

“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress

Tell that to a sixteen year old virgin in a whorehouse....

[PeeJay]

Tell that to a sixteen year old virgin in a whorehouse....

Are you saying you wouldn't want one or am I missing the point?

[PeeJay]

There is no such thing as a good tax.
Winston Churchill

[PeeJay]

See I disagree, if someone came to me and said I could LEGALLY cut my tax bill in half I would be asking where to sign and I think most on here would too.

If the politicians want to close the loopholes they can, Christ you have to tell the tax man how your doing it.

The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether to avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted.

GEORGE SUTHERLAND, Gregory v. Helvering, 1934

[Simon Bolivar]

As a selfconfessed DM reader, who hasn't seen this programme, I'll just make one point that's often forgotten. In order to reduce the welfare budget claiments are reassessed & if a doctor decides they could do some physical work he passes them fit. Supposing they have bene claiming for yrs, they may well have been sick when they started but have stablised or regained some health but who the hell is going to take them on? If they are actuially still carrying some physical aliments/ disabilty or mental heath issues there's almost no chance of them finding work. They have become instatutionalised on the system & to remove those with problems (rather than the confessed scroungers) is liable to leave them falling through the net into absolute poverty.

When applying for a job, you're required to put your address down. If you come from a 'sink' estate, do you think you'll ever get an interview, when they have plently of other applications? There was a Scottish series in Glasgow of similar ilk; there were honest & hardworking people on that estate, that had brought there council houses & were in work but are branded with the reputation of the others. If they lost their job, what chance did they have of getting another after that programme brought the name of their estate to every newspaper?

Another observation: Who employes the disabled? We had a male RN student nurse in his third yr of training to be an SRN, when he had his first epileptic fit. It was generously decided that he could finish his training but would then be thrown out of the Navy as unfit, as they couldn't have him working on the wards where he was in charge of patients. Supposing he was on his own, had a fit & a patient needed his attention? So he left & applied to the National Epileptic Assoc in London HQ for a job. Their job was to encourage industry to employ epileptics (presumably those controlled well on their meds like he was) however they turned him down saying, they didn't have anyone in the office that was trained to cope with him, should he have a fit at work! OK, I am going back to cira '84 but even so.

When smoking outside the Irish pub opposite Camdon city hall, I have watched all the blind people heading to the RNIB HQ, just up the road. But one morning when heading for a course at a nearby office, I stood for a while & watched all the sighted workers going in. I didn't see any dark glasses or guide dogs enter the building before 0900. What's so difficult about working in an office that they couldn't be employing a very high percentage of the disability they were paid to help? And that was just a couple of yrs ago.


Henry Ford made his production line up by breaking down each job & analising what a worker need to carry out that task. Some only needed one arm, some a blind man could do (putting nuts on bolts ect) & some could be legless & sit at their work station & use both hands. Then he hired ex-serivcemen from the WW1. Some criticised him for employing cheap labour but he defended himslef by saying he had given them work when no one else would, they had money to support thier families & pride in they work. It was a popular palce to work.

Now we have so many terribly disabled servicemen from Iraq & Afganistan, what future work will be made available to them? 23-30yo's don't want a medical pension for life, they want to be able to be part of society & play their part. I wonder how many with three or four limbs missing, will ever be welcomed in some way into the job market again?
OK, that's my little rant over for the day.

[ValeTudoGuy]

As a selfconfessed DM reader, who hasn't seen this programme, I'll just make one point that's often forgotten. In order to reduce the welfare budget claiments are reassessed & if a doctor decides they could do some physical work he passes them fit. Supposing they have bene claiming for yrs, they may well have been sick when they started but have stablised or regained some health but who the hell is going to take them on? If they are actuially still carrying some physical aliments/ disabilty or mental heath issues there's almost no chance of them finding work. They have become instatutionalised on the system & to remove those with problems (rather than the confessed scroungers) is liable to leave them falling through the net into absolute poverty.

When applying for a job, you're required to put your address down. If you come from a 'sink' estate, do you think you'll ever get an interview, when they have plently of other applications? There was a Scottish series in Glasgow of similar ilk; there were honest & hardworking people on that estate, that had brought there council houses & were in work but are branded with the reputation of the others. If they lost their job, what chance did they have of getting another after that programme brought the name of their estate to every newspaper?

Another observation: Who employes the disabled? We had a male RN student nurse in his third yr of training to be an SRN, when he had his first epileptic fit. It was generously decided that he could finish his training but would then be thrown out of the Navy as unfit, as they couldn't have him working on the wards where he was in charge of patients. Supposing he was on his own, had a fit & a patient needed his attention? So he left & applied to the National Epileptic Assoc in London HQ for a job. Their job was to encourage industry to employ epileptics (presumably those controlled well on their meds like he was) however they turned him down saying, they didn't have anyone in the office that was trained to cope with him, should he have a fit at work! OK, I am going back to cira '84 but even so.

When smoking outside the Irish pub opposite Camdon city hall, I have watched all the blind people heading to the RNIB HQ, just up the road. But one morning when heading for a course at a nearby office, I stood for a while & watched all the sighted workers going in. I didn't see any dark glasses or guide dogs enter the building before 0900. What's so difficult about working in an office that they couldn't be employing a very high percentage of the disability they were paid to help? And that was just a couple of yrs ago.


Henry Ford made his production line up by breaking down each job & analising what a worker need to carry out that task. Some only needed one arm, some a blind man could do (putting nuts on bolts ect) & some could be legless & sit at their work station & use both hands. Then he hired ex-serivcemen from the WW1. Some criticised him for employing cheap labour but he defended himslef by saying he had given them work when no one else would, they had money to support thier families & pride in they work. It was a popular palce to work.

Now we have so many terribly disabled servicemen from Iraq & Afganistan, what future work will be made available to them? 23-30yo's don't want a medical pension for life, they want to be able to be part of society & play their part. I wonder how many with three or four limbs missing, will ever be welcomed in some way into the job market again?
OK, that's my little rant over for the day.

I agree with all you say. However there is also a contingent that has never worked, has no intention of working and has every intention of passing these traits on to yet another generation as they had it passed onto them..... Some wear it as a badge of office even and laugh in the faces of those of us "stupid" enough to work for a living.

[searsa1]

First off....wow. I did question myself before starting this thread as I was worried it would devolve into name calling and a general quagmire of hate towards others (that tends to happen here in the US...so much so that another board I am on has totally banned any political discussion). It is refreshing to me to see discourse on a subject such as this without it going into the shitter. If it makes you feel any better we have the same issues here although our support system is much less generous than that of the UK. I will say that I would not be in favor of a similar show here in the US (just wait.....it will happen in 3..2..1). Over here it would be throwing gas on a fire. We are just now tackling the idea of universal health coverage and that got so bad we had to shut down the government. All in all it has been nice to see the opinions on this. Sort of a window into the thoughts of the good people of the UK.

I will mention I used to work in social services. From what I could see on a day to day basis was a combination of generational and poverty driven welfare. By poverty driven I mean they are already bad off. With little education and access to minimum wage jobs there was little point in working because that would drive them further in the hole as they would lose whatever assistance they already have.

[PeeJay]

With you on that one Marc and before anyone says how do you know, 30 years of policing before I retired.

[PeeJay]

First off....wow. I did question myself before starting this thread as I was worried it would devolve into name calling and a general quagmire of hate towards others (that tends to happen here in the US...so much so that another board I am on has totally banned any political discussion). It is refreshing to me to see discourse on a subject such as this without it going into the shitter. If it makes you feel any better we have the same issues here although our support system is much less generous than that of the UK. I will say that I would not be in favor of a similar show here in the US (just wait.....it will happen in 3..2..1). Over here it would be throwing gas on a fire. We are just now tackling the idea of universal health coverage and that got so bad we had to shut down the government. All in all it has been nice to see the opinions on this. Sort of a window into the thoughts of the good people of the UK.

Ever heard the expression 'light the blue touch paper and retire' Aaron?

[ValeTudoGuy]

With you on that one Marc and before anyone says how do you know, 30 years of policing before I retired.

I had 5 years of policing before I no longer had the will to courtesy to the detritus of society.

[PeeJay]

I had 5 years of policing before I no longer had the will to courtesy to the detritus of society.

Understandable nowadays, not such a problem in 1977 when I started

[searsa1]

Ever heard the expression 'light the blue touch paper and retire' Aaron?

Indeed I have not. I did look it up. Light the fuse, get out of the way, watch the show.

[PeeJay]

Indeed I have not. I did look it up. Light the fuse, get out of the way, watch the show.

Yup, standard warning on fireworks here in the UK

[PeeJay]

But as you have no doubt discovered, whereas cigars are regarded as elitist by the general population in the UK this forum has an excellent cross section of society and provides some great discussion.