PL Montecarlo Deleted?

[Shaun]

I guess it's just like everything, if more people buy it, they will make it. Slim long formats aren't smoked as much, so they aren't made as much. Same with some of the smaller brands. If people don't buy them, what can they do?

I don't see how the ELs or REs have anything to do with it?



Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

Because people are buying them as if they are 'special' cigars at inflated prices. Its ruined the whole market IMO.

[ha_banos]

Perhaps Habanos are leaving the value end of the market to the NC producers. Perhaps they want to be in the expensive end. They cannot compete with the volume and variety across the markets. So I totally expect they want to be seen as the premium brands.

Let's see what they do with their value brands.

Shame.

[Niela]

Because people are buying them as if they are 'special' cigars at inflated prices. Its ruined the whole market IMO.

But how has that ruined the market if some cigars are sold at higher prices? You could argue that Cohibas ruined CC because they are also sold at higher prices.

REs are a great way for local distributors to make some extra money, as people like collecting rare things. But the cheaper cigars are still available and always will be.

ELs are a different thing IMO. You make a limited edition when you have some tobacco that's great, but not available in large enough quantities or not reliant enough to make a regular production blend from it. I find those often great (with NCs and CCs), because they have a different profile and a flavour that you couldn't reproduce on a full scale regular production.

What I don't get is your point of it 'ruining the market'. The price rises are rather due to more people buying CCs. So with people being willing to pay more, they can raise the prices and gain profit without producing more product. Who wouldn't do that if that was your own business?

[Shaun]

But the cheaper cigars are still available and always will be.

Except they aren't, they have been discontinuing the old cigars and replacing with new double banders. They will follow the money of course, doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Niela]

Except they aren't, they have been discontinuing the old cigars and replacing with new double banders. They will follow the money of course, doesn't mean I have to like it.

I don't think they have been replaced. New lines have been introduced, others discontinued. Vegueros is super yummy and cheap and is getting a new vitola. Quai D'Orsai has gotten 3 new vitolas at the bottom of the price range.

When you talk to cigar shops, they try to push the smaller brands as much as they can, but the majority of smokers simply goes for RyJ, Partagas, Chobia and Monte.

As for the sizes, perceptions might be skewed, though I only started smoking 5 years ago and I can't tell how things were 20y ago, looking at the numbers, there are more slim than fat sizes on the market as this list from a LCDH shows:
2019-08-23_13-18-32.jpg
(Depending on how you judge a RG of 45-49) Overall, the sizes seem to be rather balanced with a slight advantage for extremely thin cigars of less than RG40 over the extreme fatties with a RG over 53.

But I do understand that if you have a preference, it hurts when a cigar you like is being discontinued.

[Alexw33]

I don't think they have been replaced. New lines have been introduced, others discontinued. Vegueros is super yummy and cheap and is getting a new vitola. Quai D'Orsai has gotten 3 new vitolas at the bottom of the price range.

When you talk to cigar shops, they try to push the smaller brands as much as they can, but the majority of smokers simply goes for RyJ, Partagas, Chobia and Monte.

As for the sizes, perceptions might be skewed, though I only started smoking 5 years ago and I can't tell how things were 20y ago, looking at the numbers, there are more slim than fat sizes on the market as this list from a LCDH shows:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]34457[/ATTACH]
(Depending on how you judge a RG of 45-49) Overall, the sizes seem to be rather balanced with a slight advantage for extremely thin cigars of less than RG40 over the extreme fatties with a RG over 53.

But I do understand that if you have a preference, it hurts when a cigar you like is being discontinued.

Although I generally get your point of view on this Niels I don’t agree that adding to the QdO range is adding new cheap sticks, they are clearly aiming to rebrand QdO as a more expensive brand and price accordingly. They have already bumped the prices up a huge amount in the last 12 months, didn’t they have a 9% increase the last time?

[Niela]

Although I generally get your point of view on this Niels I don’t agree that adding to the QdO range is adding new cheap sticks, they are clearly aiming to rebrand QdO as a more expensive brand and price accordingly. They have already bumped the prices up a huge amount in the last 12 months, didn’t they have a 9% increase the last time?

Oh yeah, they have gone up in price. But don't all CCs have gone up in the last ten years or so? In the overall portfolio, the QdO is still on the bottom of the price range, just above the Vegueros if I'm not mistaken.

The overall price hike would rather be connected to more demand and limited production. If we want to have CCs for cheap, we have to stop telling anybody about them and tell everyone we know that NCs are much better than CCs, so less people will buy them. (and tell all your Chinese friends as well!)

For me, the price tag was one of the main reasons (besides the wait of a few years before they become smokable) why I bought more NCs than CCs so far. If prices keep going up, I will buy less and less CCs and I would assume others do the same, so over time the market will regulate itself. You won't see every single CC at a price point of a Cohiba Jar release in future, because no cigar, not even a CC is really worth that money, so more people would buy NCs and with falling demand, CCs would eventually become cheaper again.

I might be completely wrong in all this of course. As I said, my experience is limited to the past 5 years really, so those of you who have been into cigars for decades might have more insight than me.

[Alexw33]

Oh yeah, they have gone up in price. But don't all CCs have gone up in the last ten years or so? In the overall portfolio, the QdO is still on the bottom of the price range, just above the Vegueros if I'm not mistaken.

The overall price hike would rather be connected to more demand and limited production. If we want to have CCs for cheap, we have to stop telling anybody about them and tell everyone we know that NCs are much better than CCs, so less people will buy them. (and tell all your Chinese friends as well!)

For me, the price tag was one of the main reasons (besides the wait of a few years before they become smokable) why I bought more NCs than CCs so far. If prices keep going up, I will buy less and less CCs and I would assume others do the same, so over time the market will regulate itself. You won't see every single CC at a price point of a Cohiba Jar release in future, because no cigar, not even a CC is really worth that money, so more people would buy NCs and with falling demand, CCs would eventually become cheaper again.

I might be completely wrong in all this of course. As I said, my experience is limited to the past 5 years really, so those of you who have been into cigars for decades might have more insight than me.

I’m not saying they aren't currently one of the cheaper brands what i’m saying is that they won’t be for long as like Shaun says HSA are deleting all the cheaper smokes and replacing them with double bands at 3 times the price.

With QdO instead of deleting them the strategy appears to be to rebrand them and hike the price. I believe QdO and Cohiba went up 9% last time, the rest 3%, it’s only a few years of increases like that before QdO is priced equally with Trinidad and the like in the tier below only Cohiba.

[gojira]

I?m not saying they aren't currently one of the cheaper brands what i?m saying is that they won?t be for long as like Shaun says HSA are deleting all the cheaper smokes and replacing them with double bands at 3 times the price.

With QdO instead of deleting them the strategy appears to be to rebrand them and hike the price. I believe QdO and Cohiba went up 9% last time, the rest 3%, it?s only a few years of increases like that before QdO is priced equally with Trinidad and the like in the tier below only Cohiba.

Well, that?s because HSA want QdO to be a marca like Trinidad and the others. Hence the new bands and the 9% price hike. You can expect another hike like that next year and probably the one after that as well.


Envoy? de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[Emaresee]

Well, that’s because HSA want QdO to be a marca like Trinidad and the others. Hence the new bands and the 9% price hike. You can expect another hike like that next year and probably the one after that as well.
Envoy? de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

crackers really.... regular production of solid quality sticks offer the shoulders which the exclusive brands stand upon. If they are all pumped to double/treble band premium they will all begin to look over priced and homogenous... but not before they've levered a lot of cash out of increasingly unhappy customers....

[Alexw33]

Well, that’s because HSA want QdO to be a marca like Trinidad and the others. Hence the new bands and the 9% price hike. You can expect another hike like that next year and probably the one after that as well.
Envoy? de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

I agree, the HSA plan as far as I can tell is to delete or increase the price on the cigars that make them the least profit. Can’t blame them really but it is shit for us, not that we are the target market for HDA strategy. QdO is obviously going to be hiked up to Trinidad prices and maybe beyond. Others such as Por Larranaga are not so lucky and are being cut.

[Kickback]

Don't buy them then.I've not found a cigar I think is worth paying over ?20 for yet so when more CC get into that bracket I'll just cross them off my purchase list.
Supply and demand.

[Shaun]

Don't buy them then.I've not found a cigar I think is worth paying over ?20 for yet so when more CC get into that bracket I'll just cross them off my purchase list.
Supply and demand.

Yeah, but we are cigar dinosaurs. In reality demand from Far East etc is driving the prices and it’s all about image rather than quality.

[Stevieboy]

I don't think they have been replaced. New lines have been introduced, others discontinued. Vegueros is super yummy and cheap and is getting a new vitola. Quai D'Orsai has gotten 3 new vitolas at the bottom of the price range.

When you talk to cigar shops, they try to push the smaller brands as much as they can, but the majority of smokers simply goes for RyJ, Partagas, Chobia and Monte.

As for the sizes, perceptions might be skewed, though I only started smoking 5 years ago and I can't tell how things were 20y ago, looking at the numbers, there are more slim than fat sizes on the market as this list from a LCDH shows:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]34457[/ATTACH]
(Depending on how you judge a RG of 45-49) Overall, the sizes seem to be rather balanced with a slight advantage for extremely thin cigars of less than RG40 over the extreme fatties with a RG over 53.

But I do understand that if you have a preference, it hurts when a cigar you like is being discontinued.

Great post. I'd no idea that the skinnies were so dominant. I really was under the impression that the fatties ruled....

[Niela]

Great post. I'd no idea that the skinnies were so dominant. I really was under the impression that the fatties ruled....

It's the perception gap. No one is save from it, which is why facts are so important. I remember taking this test and while I scored better than the average, I was still quite a bit off on some topics

The perception gap: how well do you know your country? Take our quiz

https://www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2016/dec/14/the-perception-gap-how-well-do-you-know-your-country-take-our-quiz?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Just goes to show, the way we perceive the world often has little to do with reality.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk