Discontinued cuban cigars

[TonyN]

After some replies we are still not sure why some cigars have been discontinued i suppose only cuba has the answer to my question.

[rascal]

After some replies we are still not sure why some cigars have been discontinued i suppose only cuba has the answer to my question.

Cause they did not sell would be the main reason. True enthusiast are a small percentage of HSA sales

[TonyN]

I think there might be more to the fact that they did not sell.

[TonyN]

Cause they did not sell would be the main reason. True enthusiast are a small percentage of HSA sales

If thats the case would you say the brand guatanamera cigars are better sellers than say the partagas petite corona and the erdm gran coronas
that have both been discontinued as an example look up the reviews on the guantas and see if they too should be discontinued.

[butternutsquashpie]

If thats the case would you say the brand guatanamera cigars are better sellers than say the partagas petite corona and the erdm gran coronas

they are.

[rascal]

If thats the case would you say the brand guatanamera cigars are better sellers than say the partagas petite corona and the erdm gran coronas
that have both been discontinued as an example look up the reviews on the guantas and see if they too should be discontinued.

Yip I would say guatanamera are better sellers than both ones you listed. If I can find it later will post the sales stats I seen somewhere. How many aged boxes of current production cigars do you see regularly in retailers but ones that are discontinued can be found quite easy and sometimes quite close to after a decade after the cigars were cut. This does not make the cigars bad, just that they did not sell well.

[rascal]

Sales & Revenue


Sales and Revenue figures are generally a close-kept secret within Habanos SA. In a surprising lapse, the following figures for 2006 were "published".


Reportedly just seven of the 27 current export brands account for 83 percent of all cigars sold and contribute 82 percent of all sales revenue. These brands are:
Montecristo: 23% of all cigars sold; 29% of all revenue.
Romeo y Julieta: 15% of all cigars sold; 12% of all revenue.
Partagas: 12% of all cigars sold; 12% of all revenue.
Cohiba: 11% of all cigars sold; 20% of all revenue.
Jose L. Piedra: 11% of all cigars sold; 2% of all revenue.
Quintero: 5% of all cigars sold; 2% of all revenue.
Hoyo de Monterrey: 4% of all cigars sold; 5% of all revenue.
Figures for other well-known brands are:
H. Upmann: 2.4% of all cigars sold, 2.1% of all revenue.
Trinidad: 1.5% of all cigars sold, 2.5% of all revenue.
The Bolivar, Punch and Ramon Allones brands barely register, however this position may well have changed with the introduction of the Regional Edition Series, as these three brands alone have had in excess of 60 releases to date (2013).


The largest selling cigar is the Montecristo No.4 (a Petit Corona) with a 8% market share.


Early 2009 figures reveal the following market order:
Montecristo.
Romeo y Julieta.
Jose L. Piedra.
Cohiba.
Partag?s.
Hoyo de Monterrey.
Quintero.
H. Upmann.


The majority of all income is earned from the first four brands.

Stolen from here http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-brands.aspx

[butternutsquashpie]

Anyway, yes. I promised a write up that you all can scrutinise and here it will follow.

Gather 'round yonder children and come hear tale the root of our cigar world's problems. Everyone knows of the different strands of cigars a while back. It was actually a completely different kind of breed of tobacco. LITERALLY. A mould problem hits them and they just up and changed the mould. Everyone who was a part of the 1987 RyJ Panatela box split knows that the tobacco there is radically different than any RyJ today. Age doesn't do that to a cigar - if you aged a RyJ Belvedere from today for 30 years, it won't look like that one from 1987.

Anyway, with that changing up tobacco blends, there was already a hurdle to production and blends. But what really bit off the lion's balls was the cigar boom from the turn of the century. Tobacco suffered and so did the crops. I'm generally surprised they could still churn out okay tobacco for the 2000 jars of everything. At this point, the cigars had been so perverted due to high demands. RA 898s and Punch SSs were being rolled ad infinitum in provincial factories that had not rolled them before. On top of that, an influx of new rollers went to the national factories and started churning out atrocious blends. If you have ever had an LE from 00-04 (with a few exceptions), you'll know that some of them are not worth the money. Not just due to the unburnable wrappers but mainly due to the fact that they simply taste bad. Keep in mind I said some. Many were still smokable.
How can this have even happened? Well, simple. They could no longer replicate the blends of yesteryear. I had a chance to pick up some 1980s Punch SS a while back but couldn't justify the price to myself. One thing I really wanted to know was what a Punch SS was meant to taste like. I've only had ones from the year 2000 where they're good - but almost guarenteed to be different.

Probably the best example of this that everyone would know is the Diplomatico No.3. Everyone loves the 2006 released mostly because it's the most accesable. I know few who have had the 2001 (the next most popular and an H&F aged release). I have never heard a good word about them but they are very different. Probably the best Dip 3 i've had was from 2003. The 2006 I had right after, I thought it was just harsh and didn't burn very well. But it turned out that all the 2006 Dip 3s were of that caliber. They just tasted different.
Why 2006, you ask? Because that's when they cut the Diplomatico 3.

Do you know the reason for most discontinuations yet? No? It's very simple: because they can no longer make it anymore. Personally, I would love it if they continued to make the Dip 3 under the 2006 blend. But so many people didn't take buy them up anymore due to the blend change - hence why I saw a tower of them in Switzerland. Seriously. A tower. The Punch SSs as well apparently and the RA 898s. The 2002 most common box coded RA 898s are apparently radically different from any pre-2000 898. One mate who has smoked a 1970s 898 confesses that they are no where near what that cigar should taste like.

Now. Why can't they make the cigars anymore? Ties back to the cigar boom. Influx of new rollers that can't maintain quality who stayed to roll your LGC 1s, Punch SSs whilst all the other rollers went to the LE department or the Millenium Jar department or festival activities. There died the normal entubado method of rolling that was vastly superior but took up too much time.


Another factor is simple. People who buy cigars and age them are more of a nussiance to HSA than others. The majority of people who buy cigars in B&Ms do not search for aged stock. If there was a box of RA 898s, it'd sit there for a bit until the cigar forums got wind of it. Then it'd disappear like porno in the 1998 Oval Office. Most purchases are made on frontline and they're just boxes of Montecristo 4s meant to be smoked within the week or two. Or they're a group of people going to a wedding and wanting to smoke with the groom's mates. Barely anyone has a tupperdore or a winador.
This is where you spend the manpower to continously make those RyJ 2s, MC4s, MC2s, Cohiba Siglo IIs, and yes: the guantanamera. As that's what sells.

Fast forward to today where all efforts are concentrated on the LE and RE programme. But perhaps that's for another day...

[Simon Bolivar]

For me there are some surprising facts shown above. Firstly I agree, puro lovers, the sort that actually buy boxes & may have several hundred cigars at any one time, are a very small percentage of the total number of comsumers, most of whom probably smokes 1-3 different cigars & buy singles or a box at a time & replace it when it's finished. Most people who have a humi probably have a 25-50count & it's rarely full.
One thought on the demise of the slim panatela vitolas, they were great for smaller more frequet smokes but with out door smoking being the norm now, it's either good enough weather & a decent enough reason to smoke - then a large smoke will do. If not it's probably peeing down & blowing a gale & 30-45 min smoke isn't going to appeal either.


R&J's lesser % of revenue is probably accounted by the large number of cheaper end cigars like the Tubos 1,2 & 3, Sport Largos, Londres ect where the profit margins will be smaller. Personally surprised that Cohiba accounts for 10%+ of sales but not surprised they account for dble the revune. Significantly more than the Trini's although their are not much cheaper. JLP are as cheap as chips abroad & expalins their low revenue %.


Boli, Punch & RA's aren't available world wide & thus this must restrict possible sales. Perhaps the type of leaves required for these brands is limited to start with & as stronger smokes have less appeal to the masses, might mean they are never going to have mass market appeal but us puro lovers can't get emnough of them, which is why they have had so many RE/LE releases, small volume high quality. Can't recall a bad RA RE?

Nice to see Hoyo's just punching above their weight so hopefully most of that brand will continue a while yet.

[Budgie Smuggler]

If thats the case would you say the brand guatanamera cigars are better sellers than say the partagas petite corona and the erdm gran coronas
that have both been discontinued as an example look up the reviews on the guantas

Crap flavour/quality is a different issue altogether than poor sales.

The Guanos sell well as they are a cheap Cuban, so people that know little about cigars and want to buy Cuban go for those, unless of course money is no object in which case they would go for Cohiba or Monte as they are well known brands.

[TonyN]

I'm sure people that know little about cuban cigars won't make the same mistake twice
for example why buy and smoke the guantas just because they are cheap if we don't like the flavour
hence why won't make the same mistake twice.

[butternutsquashpie]

I'm sure people that know little about cuban cigars won't make the same mistake twice
for example why buy and smoke the guantas just because they are cheap if we don't like the flavour
hence why won't make the same mistake twice.

Guantanameras are bought for the following purposes:
-Cuban travellers thinking 15 Dollars for 10 cigars is a great deal and buying a box.
-Cuban travellers walking into any LCdH and getting the cheapest cigar thinking it's still a Cuban and has to be good
-Cuban travellers smoking them and thinking they're okay only to smoke again
-Cuban travellers continuously buying them for friends, bosses, neighbours, etc back home
-Fancy packaging
-Other people doing the same in their respective countries with the first 4 reasons
-Me to give to friends
-Some people just love the profile. Not I. God no, not I. But some people just do. (my friend's GF really loves them)

[TonyN]

Every one to their own i suppose in that situation i would rather buy a handfull of decent ones for a friend and pay whatever
rather than a box of guantas for less money.
What would you think butternut if a relative went on holiday and bought you back a nice box of guantas.

[Budgie Smuggler]

why buy and smoke the guantas just because they are cheap if we don't like the flavour

For the same reason some people drink cheap booze or crap ready meals, either because they are constrained by price or they just aren't discerning enough to tell the difference.

Put Tesco "Value" whisky or a ?50 bottle of single malt in front if my Father in Law and he wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Some people just aren't bothered about such things.

[butternutsquashpie]

What would you think butternut if a relative went on holiday and bought you back a nice box of guantas.

i have a mate do that every year at least once from Cuba. they know i like cigars and either a mate or relative brings them back.
I smile, thank them, and toss them in the humi in a pouch.