Questiontime!

[tippexx]

e.g. second release poor quality with different blends..

Now there's a sixtyfour thousand dollar question.

And for the million. If there is Worldwide network of 'trusted' distributors for Habanos SA .... how come a grey market exists and where does the stock come from?

[Smallclub]

.... how come a grey market exists and where does the stock come from?

This is no longer a secret. I'm sure you have heard of one of the ways these cigars are sourced.

[tippexx]

Yeah, but I thought Fidel now had the bloke under lock an' key for his behaviour!

[crusse]

how come a grey market exists and where does the stock come from?

The most plausible explanation that I've found for this was on another cigar forum. It also made me laugh. Here it is:

Let's say I am the official distributor of Habanos for Wonkaland, a small island country out in the Pacific Ocean, with a population of about 1 million people. I meet with the folks at HSA every year to discuss the amount of inventory I need to meet the needs of my market. I press for as many boxes as HSA will give me. My cigars arrive, shipped 1/2 way around the world, and I divert a small portion to meet the needs of my tiny domestic market. The rest of the cigars stay in a bonded warehouse at the airport, where I do not pay import tax. Now, I get on the phone with a few brokers/dealers who will then bid on the cigars. I accept the best offer and arrange to ship these cigars to their bonded warehouse, usually in Geneva or HK. Sometimes my boxes will go right into the US, or Canada for more direct distribution, after I have rebranded them as Ugandan cigars. The cigars that go to "Duty-Free" zones are then held in a warehouse where smaller operators can bid on them. Most of the boxes will end up with 2nd hand or grey market distributors who then package them and ship them for on-line vendors. Most on-line vendors never see these boxes. They dont know where they come from. They dont care. Why should they care, if the consumer doesn't?
Now, back on my small island of Wonkaland, I am already preparing my next sales pitch to HSA, so that they will see I can actually handle 50%+ product than I received last year because I have been promoting like crazy and now everyone in Wonkaland wants to smoke three cigars a day. If I am careful I will get my allotted boxes and stop the jerk who is a distributor in West Wonkaland from getting anymore cigars than he needs for his tiny, island nation of 1 million.

[Puff Scotty]

Flaming Nora!....Crusse old chap you've donked the proverbial nail!

On my box of Guantanameras there
is this label...

!004.jpg

[Smallclub]

On my box of Guantanameras there
is this label...

This is the PCC label. (PCC is the distributor for Asia/Pacific). Most of the importers/distributors have their own label and/or sticker.
That's why you can assume, most of the time but not always, that "no labels/stickers" = grey market.

[pedro]

I think you are all missing the big question here.

Puff WTF are you doing with a box of Cuban dog rockets in the first place!

[Deano]

I think you are all missing the big question here.

Puff WTF are you doing with a box of Cuban dog rockets in the first place!

Lol!

[Puff Scotty]

I think you are all missing the big question here.

Puff WTF are you doing with a box of Cuban dog rockets in the first place!

LOL A mate brought me these back from one of his many trips, he was doing me a kindness by getting me a CC he'd never seen in my humidor before..

Fortunately from a box of 10 I've managed to give 9 away to .

[TJCoro]

Nice Try, Chico!

LOL A mate brought me these back from one of his many trips, he was doing me a kindness by getting me a CC he'd never seen in my humidor before..

Fortunately from a box of 10 I've managed to give 9 away to .

Now, I ain't know mathematician, but by my count, you only gave away four ...So what happened to the other five?

Admit it! You SMOKED the other five.


Perro, el Perro

[Deano]

And he loved them!

[Puff Scotty]

Guilty as charged...I admit I have smoked a Cristale before...that's why I gave these to the:

123456789

[TJCoro]

Let me clarify!

Guilty as charged...I admit I have smoked a Cristale before...that's why I gave these to the:

123456789

'Nuf said!

[tippexx]

The most plausible explanation that I've found for this was on another cigar forum. It also made me laugh. Here it is:

Let's say I am the official distributor of Habanos for Wonkaland, a small island country out in the Pacific Ocean, with a population of about 1 million people. I meet with the folks at HSA every year to discuss the amount of inventory I need to meet the needs of my market. I press for as many boxes as HSA will give me. My cigars arrive, shipped 1/2 way around the world, and I divert a small portion to meet the needs of my tiny domestic market. The rest of the cigars stay in a bonded warehouse at the airport, where I do not pay import tax. Now, I get on the phone with a few brokers/dealers who will then bid on the cigars. I accept the best offer and arrange to ship these cigars to their bonded warehouse, usually in Geneva or HK. Sometimes my boxes will go right into the US, or Canada for more direct distribution, after I have rebranded them as Ugandan cigars. The cigars that go to "Duty-Free" zones are then held in a warehouse where smaller operators can bid on them. Most of the boxes will end up with 2nd hand or grey market distributors who then package them and ship them for on-line vendors. Most on-line vendors never see these boxes. They dont know where they come from. They dont care. Why should they care, if the consumer doesn't?
Now, back on my small island of Wonkaland, I am already preparing my next sales pitch to HSA, so that they will see I can actually handle 50%+ product than I received last year because I have been promoting like crazy and now everyone in Wonkaland wants to smoke three cigars a day. If I am careful I will get my allotted boxes and stop the jerk who is a distributor in West Wonkaland from getting anymore cigars than he needs for his tiny, island nation of 1 million.

Yes. I've seen this before. It almost washes, except for one small thing. If we are aware, then so would Habanos be .... so, therefore the grey market exists not just with their knowledge but with their passive participation.

[monkey66]

What Tipp said.


IMO there is a good amount of substance in the Wonkaland description. I would speculate that HSA's prices are pretty similar when they leave the island, after this the huge swings are mainly down to local taxation conditions and market forces.

One would imagine HSA are not too upset that there has evolved a grey-market industry shipping huge quantities principly to the USA.