New or Older Cohiba...

[Puff Scotty]

I thought I'd ask this question although I think I'll get a mixed response!
I'm fortunate enough to have smoked most of the Cohiba range of cigars at different ages...
what I have found is everyone I've had the opportunity to have smoked both new & aged the sticks with at least +4 years are without doubt IMHO a far better stick...almost makes new offerings those to buy for aging.
It's at a level that I'd really rather not smoke a 'new' Cohiba...

[SmokeyDave]

Have to agree with you there Scotty, of all the Cohiba I've had (not a huge selection) they have developed into wonderful smokes having sat in my humi for 12+ months.

[tippexx]

I thought I'd ask this question although I think I'll get a mixed response!
I'm fortunate enough to have smoked most of the Cohiba range of cigars at different ages...
what I have found is everyone I've had the opportunity to have smoked both new & aged the sticks with at least +4 years are without doubt IMHO a far better stick...almost makes new offerings those to buy for aging.
It's at a level that I'd really rather not smoke a 'new' Cohiba...

Cohiba Dave? Why stick there. I think I've reached a stage where I'd rather not smoke anything new. And sorry, I don't care how long the tobacco has been aged prior to rolling, a new stick is a new stick, and none of them Behike, Reservas, REs, LEs and production are as good as they will be a few years down the line.

I do buy new sticks, sometimes there isn't any other choice, but wherever I can I will try to find older even if it means paying a little more.

[Puff Scotty]

Cohiba Dave? Why stick there. I think I've reached a stage where I'd rather not smoke anything new. And sorry, I don't care how long the tobacco has been aged prior to rolling, a new stick is a new stick, and none of them Behike, Reservas, REs, LEs and production are as good as they will be a few years down the line.

I do buy new sticks, sometimes there isn't any other choice, but wherever I can I will try to find older even if it means paying a little more.

I spoke of Cohibas in particular because I did not like the marque at all when they first started to appear - everyone else seemed to be raving about them but to me they were just Mewh! They have improved vastly with some good age on them so even I can tell the huge difference

[SmokeyDave]

For me the brands that change dramatically with a few years on them have been Cohiba and Bolivar, the Petit Belicosos EL I purchased were pretty much unsmokable when new, now they are just starting to develop. The opposite end of the spectrum have been Partagas SDN4's, never had a bad one even straight from a new box, though thats not to say they don't improve with age.

This thread has just reminded me of something I read a few years back about Cohiba, I'm sure someone mentioned that they don't long term age as well as others because the leaves are aged longer prior to rolling compared to other brands, the conclusion was that 7 years was optimum for Cohiba. I must try and hunt that article down.

[Puff Scotty]

the conclusion was that 7 years was optimum for Cohiba.

Have a cab of V's SVF NOV05 & Ro's PO# JUN06 which are smoking superbly at present, these are some of my oldest as I didn't stock 'cos I didn't like when new...could have done with a little foresite...

[Deano]

I'll repeat, the Cohiba Lonsdale is extremely good, and even better with age. Never been a fan of the Robusto or even the Siglo VI (please don't hurt me)

[SmokeyDave]

I'll repeat, the Cohiba Lonsdale is extremely good, and even better with age. Never been a fan of the Robusto or even the Siglo VI (please don't hurt me)

No pain needed Deano, just send me all your Robusto's and Siglo VI's ... simples!

[Simon Bolivar]

+1

[monkey66]

I am with Tipp that I only buy to age and try to never smoke young sticks.

As to Puffys observations I couldn't agree more. I have written many times of the perils of smoking Cohibas young. There is no question that I would not attempt any Cohiba with less than 4-5 years on it as they are often plain nasty. Whilst creamy/grassy/beany when aged they are quite full bodied and young can taste horrible.
Additionally a young CC's seems to be far more likely to be plugged (not 100% sure why though).

I am convinced a lot of people are put off Cohibas for life as at some point in their smoking journey they decide to stump up the high price and then light up this 'prized' stick. They then question their pallet as it is terrible ....but how can that be? it's a Cohiba ...it cost 30 quid ...not buying this again. I had this experience once and I am sure many others have too.

I also think this touches on one of the key points that seems to cause so much derision in our community. Cuban cigars need age to be good, end of. Some are ok young, plenty are nasty. What does this mean...
1. High barrier to entry - no one starts of with a developed pallet, or an aged collection. Buying CC's young off-the-shelf only gets you so far in this hobby of ours.
2. You need to pay to play - It is a significant investment in time and cash to get to the point of smoking aged stock ...and knowing how to buy/age.
3. Perception of snobbery - If something seems unobtainable (as a developed, aged collection to someone starting out can be) it can seem like an exclusive club. The members all talk their own language and you can't join (well you can but you will only find out after time and financial commitment).
4. NC's aren't snobby - because you can buy them straight off-the-shelf and play from day one. They (on the whole) are not intended for long-term ageing.
5. Some people are (understandably) put off CC's in a big way partly because they never got past the first (painful and expensive) stage of spending good money on often bad CC's (some people just prefer the taste of NC's of course).
6. Don't smoke young Cohibas.

All just my ramblings, be interested to see if you guys think I am making sense or just my usual bs .

[crusse]

I agree with most of the points made on this thread, but I'd like to comment on a few of your points Monkey66:

I have no doubt that you need to invest a certain amount of time and money to get the most out of CC's, but there are ways to get around the 'high barrier'. Most major UK retailers sell H&F aged stock (often from '98-'99) at little or no extra cost. Although these years did have problems with quality control, there are still some very good sticks to be had from this period. It is also relatively easy to get aged stock from various years at any LCDH. Buying aged stock is one way to avoid having to invest a huge amount of time and money when you're starting out.

Secondly, I'm not convinced that all CC's need significant aging. They might all benefit from aging, but I find that some cigars are good to go with only a year on them (Party Shorts, Trini Reyes and Boli RC's are the ones that come to mind). This is probably a matter of taste - I think that a relatively young Reyes is a good smoke, but you might not. But if you can find a few cigars that you enjoy when still young then you can rely on them as your regular smokes while you slowly build up an aged collection of other sticks. By all accounts Cohibas are not much good when young, so they should be allowed to age while you rely on other sticks in the meantime.

[tippexx]

4. NC's aren't snobby - because you can buy them straight off-the-shelf and play from day one. They (on the whole) are not intended for long-term ageing.

That was so, but I think it's changing. Storage for ageing wasn't something US Retailers really needed or thought about, traditionally they've only carried what they've required for immediate needs and that's worked fine. Recently, many US BOTL have taken to ageing NCs (presumably based on their experience or understanding of CC ageing practice) and find the stronger blends, Fuente Fuente OpusX, Padr?n, Ashton VSG and La Flor Dominicana ect will age exceptionally well.

More and more NCs are now available in the UK where retailers are traditionally set up for storage ageing, I think in a few years time, and I'm a big CC snob, that we might all be popping the odd older NCs box into our tuppadores as part of our enjoying this hobby.

[monkey66]

That was so, but I think it's changing. Storage for ageing wasn't something US Retailers really needed or thought about, traditionally they've only carried what they've required for immediate needs and that's worked fine. Recently, many US BOTL have taken to ageing NCs (presumably based on their experience or understanding of CC ageing practice) and find the stronger blends, Fuente Fuente OpusX, Padr?n, Ashton VSG and La Flor Dominicana ect will age exceptionally well.

More and more NCs are now available in the UK where retailers are traditionally set up for storage ageing, I think in a few years time, and I'm a big CC snob, that we might all be popping the odd older NCs box into our tuppadores as part of our enjoying this hobby.

Interesting, I have seen talk of long aged NC's being special but seems to be reserved for very few sticks.

I guess some of my thoughts were based on conversations I have had with George Padron and Pete Johnson who both stated there is no real advantage to ageing their sticks as they release them in optimal condition for smoking. This could of course be marketing BS that I choose to help justify my CC snobbery

I am still looking for that elusive great NC. Do you think I should beg/steal/borrow a 10 year aged quality NC and see if that is what I am missing?

[pedro]

If you ask any company and I am including the Cuban government in this none will tell you there products are not best when you buy them from the shop and that you should store them away for 1-10 years before you smoke them as this would put off the average buyer

[crusse]

Monkey66, regardless of what George Padron says I've had a couple of Padron 1964's with 5 years on them and they were amazing! But I think that you're right that most NC's don't really need much aging. On the other hand, I don't think that this justifies CC snobbery - surely it's an advantage to have sticks that smoke well straight away?!