Concluded Fake... this has been a long one ...and it is still going

[monkey66]

Some of you will no doubt be aware of this discussion but for those who have missed it it makes a fascinating read.

For several months now on a US centric trading site there has been an almost endless supply of Monte GR's, Cohiba 1966's, diplomatic releases and other pre-release cigars offered for sale. The authenticity has been called into question and the debate has enschued.

I thought it was relevant to post as it is a riveting read and probably important to know (especially a few years down the line) the number of these sticks on the market.

NB - to be clear we do not discuss non UK sources here and this is an academic observation.

http://www.onlinehumidor.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=657f9be6081f69f14b04506be60309ab&topic=9210.0

[Kdot]

Ive been reading for a few days now and it makes for great entertainment.
Personally I wouldnt touch them. Seems dodgy.

[Agricola]

Well I started reading that thread however I had to stop by page two as .....


kryten.jpg

both my sanity and intelligence chips suffered a violent crash caused by a memory leak leading to their near fatal melt down triggering a psychotic episode involving a cigar cutter a traffic wardens' finger and several litres of PG soloution .... now I'll never get into silicon heaven

EDIT:

After reading the full thread I've decided to sell off my unlimited stock of 1944 RyJ Churchills owned by Winston himself ... I have an unlimited supply and am charging a measly sum of just ?50 per cigar. For each box of 25 purchased I'll throw in one finger bone of Jesus Christ absolutely free! Next week doing a bogof on original JFK H.Uppmans!

[Stevieboy]

Wow! They're quite an angry bunch over there...rightly so if there's dodgy deals on the go....

[cohibaIV]

I think Nino has it all summed up IMHO...

http://www.flyingcigar.de/smoking_cigars/2011_05_fakes_fakes_everywhere_.php

Cheers Nino, another good blog...

[monkey66]

It's a hell of a read, they sure are angry.

[peanutpete]

the last i read TL had gone into hiding, i will catch up later on, but not much doubt that they are fake, amazing that no one had ever met him yet some people went out on a limb to protect him, comes down to common sence any knowing your source

[cohibaIV]

I think Nino has it all summed up IMHO...

http://www.flyingcigar.de/smoking_cigars/2011_05_fakes_fakes_everywhere_.php

Cheers Nino, another good blog...

As Nino Said............

[monkey66]

So this is concluded and vast majority of sticks were/are fake.

We need to watch out for:
Monte 2 GR's
Cohiba 1966 El 2011
Cohiba Diplomatic Lanceros (palm tree band)
El Rey del Mundo 2008 - Edici?n Regional Italia Regional Edition Series
2007 Partags Encuentro de Amigos Black Label

It is probably fair to say their are hundreds (if not thousands) of these in circulation with our global community. I will not be buying/swapping any of the above listed without knowing who I am dealing with 100% (and checking their source for the sticks). Of course this shouldn't be an issue for any respected/legitimate retail sources.

Examination of the Monte GR here

http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-1269

Interesting to note that the bands are faultless!

I fear this episode is going to create ripples for years

[snooky]

Well i cant see fakes ever being stopped, i wish we could guarantee authenticity that why it's good to 1, belong to a forum and 2 educate our senses with EMS sticks. Probably a few aficianados around who have only smoked fakes and know no better ? Imagine.
Ive smoked some fakes knowingly , fortunately good ones and concluded, well not bad for the money but why settle for second best .
Much to be said on this. Deano can we get some dancing bananas.

[joeray]

I am sorry, but I couldn't understand.

Is 'Triple Ligero" an individual where people did trades with him and he was sending him fakes or this is a name of a website or store where he was selling fake?

[monkey66]

He is an individual who was trading on a US focused trading site (where anyone can trade). It is strongly suspected that he has done this a few years ago under a different alias.

[monkey66]

A very interesting archive article on vitolas.net.



An inside look at the cuban counterfeit trade

Rod Steele. Ajaxcigars.com 13/05/2002

Victoria (Canada).- Cuba's present economic hardship has its people searching endless new ways of making money. In the old days when counterfeiting existed on a very small scale, it was considered merely a 'gentleman's offense'. Today however the Habanos counterfeiting business is in full bloom.
This article will take you from the acquiring of the raw tobacco to smoking in capitalism's fine salons.

First meet Jose who used to live in Pinar del Rio on a Finca (farm) about 15 klicks from San Juan y Martinez. Mucho trabajo y poco dinero or 'much work for no money'. Jose didn't want anymore so he moved from the Vuelta Abajo to the 'city of capitalism' Havana. With an old Chevy pickup truck we head to Pinar del Rio to buy tobacco. After three hours we arrive in San Juan y Martinez.

Many Vegueros throughout Cuba hold back some tobacco for the black market, where they can get up to ten times the price paid by the state. First stop, nada. Now its off to San Luis, 20 minutes away. It is a poor region. Most of the Vegueros here own little plantations and anyone earning more than $100 per month is considered rich. The Vegueros leads us to his Casa del Tobaco. On the racks are thousands of leaves that look like hundreds of bats hanging around.

In one corner are bales of tobacco that have been wrapped in palm leaves. The tobacco is still light in color which means that the fermentation is not yet finished. Jose wants tobacco for 5000 cigars and talks with the Vegueros about price. The deal is set at filler for $2.50 per kilo and a sheaf of wrapper, which contains about 100 leaves for $4.00. Total cost $500.00 a small fortune in Pinar del Rio. Fully loaded we head back to Havana. Jose is sweating and is afraid of getting caught by the police. He hasn't been in the business very long.

The tobacco is stored in Nuevo Vedado, a section of Havana where we meet Benito. He's a car mechanic with his own shop - which hides other things. Jose's tobacco will rest here for a few days before being distributed and processed further. He explains that this tobacco is reserved for an American (we'll meet George later) living in the Bahamas who has ordered 50 boxes of Partagas Lusitanias, 50 Punch Double Corona, 50 Hoyo de Monterrey Double Coronas and 50 Cohiba Esplendidos. The American wants only the best quality and is willing to pay for it.

We spoke with another counterfeiter who buys his tobacco from some of the worst regions, where tobacco for cigarettes and other tobacco products are grown, and sold only for domestic consumption.

The tobacco

The leaves are small and the fermentation shorter. This is where the smaller counterfeit organizations buy their tobacco. Behind innumerable streets and corners where extremely poor people live, we wind our way through the dark passageways, staircases and doors of an old colonial place. Everything is worn and run down. Collapsed walls, a strong stench and begging children.

Its like a garbage dump. In a small room sits a young boy and an old woman who can barely walk. She receives a monthly government pension of $2.00, an amount impossible to survive on. She learned from a neighbor how to roll cigars. The boy and the lady are rolling 'Churchill' style - maybe a future Cohiba Esplendido, they don't know. We test the quality of some of these cigars.

Poorly proportioned with both hard and weak spots. The cigars are not cut at the right length as this will be done later at the finishing workshops. The cigars are like the garbage dump, partly rotten and moldy. These people work day after day without a break.

One worker can make approximately 200 cigars per day. A man enters the room and requests unfinished cigars for 10 boxes of Cohiba's. He is surprised by our presence but we persuade him to take us to the guy who makes the boxes. In the back yard of Eduardo's house is a small workshop. In between half built chairs and cabinets are vast amounts of cigar boxes. One worker puts the boxes together. In a corner stands a hand press that imprints the brand labels on boxes.

Now, the stamps

The stamps are either stolen or counterfeited by specialists. 'With furniture you can't make money' he complains. 'The Cubans are too poor to buy such things.' 'We have to improvise but in this way the Cubans are world champions.'

The next day we visit a Cuban in Centro Habana. His workshop is his living room. Cigar bands, quality seals and other materials are everywhere. On one table are a lot of empty boxes. He puts the bands on the cigars and cuts them to length. He has them spread across the sofa in piles of 'good quality' and 'bad quality'. When he packs them in the boxes he makes sure the poorest are on the bottom. He tells us that he doe not sell the cigars to the tourists - this is done by the Jineteros or street hustlers. He told that he spent a year in jail when he was caught by the police with 10 boxes of counterfeits. The next time would mean several years - so he leaves it up to the Jineteros. He puts the tax / seal stamp and Habanos label inside the box. He will attach the labels to the box only if the customer requests it.

The counterfeiting organizations work in small groups and co-operate closely with each other. Their methods are simple: at the doors and in the immediate area of the cigar stores and factories, stand the Jineteros offering reduced prices. From all sides, they try to persuade you not to buy in the shops. They always tell the same story - right from the counterfeiters manual.

They have a brother, sister, cousin, uncle, aunt or nephew who works in the factory and brings them out for them. If this were true then the entire production of the Partagas Factory would disappear on the black market - every day! Everything is the same, the brands and the sales pitch. The quality and the price however vary. The main counterfeit cigars are the larger sizes and bear well-known labels. The most fraudulent of all are the Cohiba and Montecristo. Other brands can be delivered as well, without delay.

A cuban problem?

Now most would think that this is just an internal problem within Cuba. Well here is where it gets interesting. Every year thousand of tourists go to Cuba to buy the Falsificaciones. Many of them do it intentionally, like Dieter who is an aficionado from Stuttgart. Twice a year he flies to Cuba to buy cigars in the official shops. He buys ten boxes for his own enjoyment. Another 10 boxes he buys on the black market for $30 a piece. He in turns sells these in Germany at half the going market price. With his earnings from the sale of the black market cigars he finances his personal cigar purchases. The black market cigars must be sold quickly because they have not undergone disinfection like those in the factories. Therefore, within a short period of time the tobacco beetle is hard at work.

Hans, a Dutchman living in Cuba, tells us that, for the past three years, he has made his living from cigar smuggling. Five to six times a year he flies to Amsterdam with 100 boxes of counterfeits in his luggage. We ask him to tell explain to us how he takes such large amounts out of Cuba without detection. He says that he knows 'people' at the airport and pays them $10.00 per box -no questions asked. Then Hans offers us the opportunity to join him in business because, by the way, he is short of money. He shows us a business card and then laughs. It is a card from a well known cigar shop in Amsterdam with subsidiaries all over the Netherlands. Every time he goes to Amsterdam he claims he sells them all his cigars at Dfl 500 per box. 'Its quick money' he says.

Going to the US

George (he's the guy that Jose bought all the tobacco for) lives in Tampa Florida but is a citizen of the Bahamas. He owns a yacht which he rents to tourists who want to go deep sea fishing. On one of his charter trips to Cuba several years ago, George got the idea to smuggle cigars when he saw his passengers bringing vast amounts with them. Soon after, he once again sailed to Cuba and contacted counterfeiters. At first he bought only a few, now George smuggles around 2000 boxes a year to the states.

The cigars are loaded into George's yacht and in a flash the boat is cleared for departure and heads for the Bahamas. He remains there for a few days and then travels under the American flag to Miami.

In Miami a distributor pay $250 per box and the cigars leave Miami for fine cigar shops, restaurants, bar and clubs - from New York to Los Angeles. Tom and his buddy ordered 1000 cigars from a Torcedor (roller). He pays the Torcedor a $1000. 'Good quality that we would smoke as well' he says. Then a counterfeiter provides the bands for $60. They fly back to the US via the Dominican Republic. One has the cigars in his luggage the other has the bands in his. In the USA they declare the cigars as 'Dominican Seconds' and pay a small duty. Once back in Palm Springs they put the bands on the cigars and fill boxes that we keep on hand. They offer them under the table in their smoking lounge. 'For one Cohiba Robusto we get $40. They sell like hot cakes' he said.

In the state owned media, tightening the black market activities is constantly talked about. On the street, however, it's a different story. On every corner, you are offered cigars. It seems each household is selling cigars. The police turn a blind eye. When we asked the police why nothing is being done to stop this - we are told that most of Havana would be in jail if action were taken.

[snooky]

Monkey, any chance you can put this in a sentence

[monkey66]

Any chance you can learn to read like a big boy