For investment.

[whisky77]

I was thinking about the price of cigars in general and I had wondered how they would fair as in investment.

I work with a guy who buys rare wine and then keeps it with a view to selling it on in years to come and hopefully make a profit on it.
if you were to do the same thing with a box of cigars what do you reckon would be the best brand to speculate with?

I had thought about some of the rarer RE releases, where there are only a set number of boxes released.

I had thought of a timeline of around 5-8 years. looking for some thoughts.

[EugeneSax]

Eggy's the man to ask when it comes to keeping cigars for the long term ;-)

Seriously, though, I think there are a couple of people around here who could give you professional advice on this subject

Logic would indicate that, all other things being equal, the rarer the better. In my mind would that point towards old now deleted stock such as CC Davidoffs, Dunhills, pre-embargos etc, but whether or not they have already 'realised' all or most of their their rarity premium, I wouldn't know (thus the suggestion to seek professional advice).

[Lee Nub]

I used to buy wine en primeur , slightly different way of doing it but the same idea, ,buy to sell .

Its a very interesting subject , i look forward to peoples comments.


Another example, Comics have surpassed investment in the stock market every year for several years. I have over 10,000 in my collection
and look forward to the day when i sell them lol (so does the wife) Again its all down to specialist knowledge of what to buy. The advantage you
have is you can see from members smoking habits, what they want to buy and can plan a 5 to 8 year stratedgy from that.

[Deano]

It's certainly something I've been considering, but I don't have the money to start investing yet! And I wonder if I could resist the temptation to smoke them, probably not.

[mb55317]

I had explored this idea but I believe it is very speculative. If anything perhaps the book series or jars are more likely to show a profit but even if you look at some vintage cigars they're not making lots given the amount of time you must hold the investment. The other problem is provenance- how can you demonstrate good storage conditions throughout? Wine is stored in specialist bonded warehouses which carries some weight, there isn't really the same thing for cigars. Just my thoughts really..


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[Simon-JG-hr]

I used to buy wine en primeur , slightly different way of doing it but the same idea, ,buy to sell .

How did that go? I've been looking at Berry Bros. en primeur service for similar reasons. Question is, I've no idea if the reasonably priced wines would really gain much in value? (Unfortunately, I think most of the 2009 Bordeaux's gone now... ).

As for the actual question in hand, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'd go with those recommending the rarer the better. The key is working out which of the rare ones are good enough - as we've seen, the REs can be a little variable. Then there's the LEs, clear advantage being the big-name brands - disadvantage, ever-more ridiculous starting prices.

Now, if you could have got hold of some LGC Deliciosos from Cuba, you'd probably have doubled your money on touch-down at Heathrow...

I think you could also make positive returns, if somewhat more modest, on some regular production cigars. I'm thinking particularly the 'big' flavour/strength brands, which seem to have a good reputation for ageing. Even better if something gets discontinued in the interim.

[Seriesteve]

I bought quite a few El's back in 00, 01's,2's, 3's.........and so on to 10's
with the possibilty of selling them on at some stage ....
Now 10yrs later I dont really want to sell them, I just want to keep them for myself
When I see them, smell them, touch them, I cant bear to sell them... Or for that fact, Smoke them
Nice to discuss this back with more later..
Ss

[Aussiewaz]

Eggy's the man to ask when it comes to keeping cigars for the long term ;-)

ROTFLMAO!

To be honest, the way the world economy is going, I do not think it would be a great idea. I have a long term plan to retire by opening an online B&M here but aged smokes will not draw a premium. Even now unless they are well over 10 years old (2000 & 2001 being bad construction years) and stored to suit a particular collectors tastes the profit works out at about 2% per year if your lucky. Not an authority but have looked into it a little.

[Simon-JG-hr]

The other problem is provenance- how can you demonstrate good storage conditions throughout?

Excellent point, and one I was going to say, but forgot...

I know that most of the big London retailers will store your stock for you (especially if investment is the key). I think some even offer it free of charge for stock bought from them.

[Lee Nub]

How did that go? I've been looking at Berry Bros. en primeur service for similar reasons. Question is, I've no idea if the reasonably priced wines would really gain much in value? (Unfortunately, I think most of the 2009 Bordeaux's gone now... ).

As for the actual question in hand, I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'd go with those recommending the rarer the better. The key is working out which of the rare ones are good enough - as we've seen, the REs can be a little variable. Then there's the LEs, clear advantage being the big-name brands - disadvantage, ever-more ridiculous starting prices.

Now, if you could have got hold of some LGC Deliciosos from Cuba, you'd probably have doubled your money on touch-down at Heathrow...

I think you could also make positive returns, if somewhat more modest, on some regular production cigars. I'm thinking particularly the 'big' flavour/strength brands, which seem to have a good reputation for ageing. Even better if something gets discontinued in the interim.

So so really, you really have to go for the more expensive cases to guarantee sales. We did end up keeping a few to be honest. I also joined the Penfolds privilege club as im a big fan of there wines, Grange and the Red wine trials are really nice. This gave access to a lot the bins that werent avaiable to the public. I have some still that i bought many years ago that have trebled in value

The only hard thing is selling them, privately its almost impossible.

[EugeneSax]

Further thinking about has been (and continues to be) quite an interesting academic exercise - considering the possible upsides & downsides. Is the almost worst case scenario that you end up with lots of costly, but nice sticks to smoke?

Unfortunately in my case purely "academic" as I'm not in a position to invest at the moment (probably a net dis-investor), although weighing the ups & downs I can't reach a definite conclusion whether there is money to be made.

Actually I am sure there is the potential to make money investing in cigars - I'm just not sure if it's possible to take sufficiently considered decisions that would make this more of an investment than a gamble.

One possibly not obvious downside is the heartache that might be induced come the time to sell your lovelies - perhaps a bit like raising pigs for meat?

[Smallclub]

Some thoughts:

As far as I know, no individual has yet made a fortune by selling a collection compiled by him.

Quality is at least as important as rarity, which no longer means much in these days of globalization?

You need to have strong knowledge and experience to know which cigars are the best candidates for aging?

To possibly make money in 10 years you would have to buy huge quantities and spend a fortune NOW.

[Aussiewaz]

Some thoughts:

As far as I know, no individual has yet made a fortune by selling a collection compiled by him.

Quality is at least as important as rarity, which no longer means much in these days of globalization?

You need to have strong knowledge and experience to know which cigars are the best candidates for aging?

To possibly make money in 10 years you would have to buy huge quantities and spend a fortune NOW.

That is indeed my thinking and to limit your losses in the future you also have to buy the right ones to age, right now. Very fickle business.

[tippexx]

The other problem is provenance- how can you demonstrate good storage conditions throughout? Wine is stored in specialist bonded warehouses which carries some weight, there isn't really the same thing for cigars. Just my thoughts really..


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I believe Mitch and quite a few other vendors store cigars on behalf of clients.

[satch]

My sister-in-law occasionally buys rare whiskies. They seem to do well.
She does have the brass to buy expensive whisky in the first place though.