Faking every brand

[ha_banos]

https://halfwheel.com/miami-man-arre...cigars/436126/

I wonder how far and wide these spread. Perhaps they are localised to the US? Doubt it though. At the very least wherever there are casual cigar tourists id guess. And then some... Some stores no doubt. Private sales groups. This is a major operation.

Anyone reading, just be extremely weary.

Legit checks?
- vendor and provenance.... (Montefortuna and Finest Cuban Cigars have been outed previously selling fakes)
- smell
- wrapper, cap, bunching
- bands check, e.g. https://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/brand/cohiba
- serial number check https://www.habanos.com/en/authenticity-check/
- serial number aligns with date stamp
- packaging: box wood, finish, hinges, clasps
- UV light checks - removed from Cubans from circa. May 2023

A couple of these off and you could have a fake in hand. The original package does also sometimes have some variation/imperfections to add to the difficulties.

Could you tell? ......

If its too good to be true. Or available when Hard to Find (HTF.) in legit vendor shops. Take a real close look. Look into the eye of the seller....

El-Baraton-Counterfeit-Cigars-1-1024x683.jpg

El-Baraton-Counterfeit-Cigars-5-1152x1536.jpg

[liles]

I would be surprised if you couldn't find similar outfits dealing in countries without a Cuban ban. Spain definitely has a problem with fakes, anywhere with a high tourist flow is at risk, really.

One can only hope the extortionate premium that H&F command really does it give a proper seal of approval!

[ha_banos]

I would be surprised if you couldn't find similar outfits dealing in countries without a Cuban ban. Spain definitely has a problem with fakes, anywhere with a high tourist flow is at risk, really.

One can only hope the extortionate premium that H&F command really does it give a proper seal of approval!

I think we can trust the provenance between Cuba and H&F and many of the retailers on the whole over here. There have been retailers abroad that have been caught out publicly, such as https://www.reddit.com/r/cubancigars...selling_fakes/ Also we hear and see the photos coming from the Caribbean and Americas. Even legit outlets over here may sell cheaper non-EMS stock - and pass them as sourced from H&F. Not wanting to start rumours.

We do get access over here to Cubans from Europe and beyond through the private groups and discords and some under counter activity in shops. Just be weary. When the chain is broken there is more risk. As you say liles anywhere with a high flow of tourism or demand for Cuban cigars will be targetted.

You really need to know what to look for, even then the fake boxes, bands, labels have been getting better. You need to know what the roll of the cigar looks like, the cold aroma, the feel, the wrapper! And look your seller in the eye...

I posted this on social media too and its amazing how many experienced cigar folk are not aware how wide spread and big business this has become.

[mcdee]

Scary stuff. I am happy to check anyone's collection for authenticity....

[MrMaduro]

That is a serious operation and it definitely won't be the only one.

The thing with those run of the mill boxes is you see variations in the legit supply line, you haven't a hope in hell of spotting the fakes. I imagine the smokes they put in them are actually going to be of good quality to keep the operation going. Just look at the quality (look, aroma and flavour) of overruns you can get from legit places abroad. Slap some of them lables on and put them in the box and I don't think you'd ever know.

Most folk, myself included, just wouldn't have questioned it about everyday boxes.

The only way around it is to trust your sources.

[ShaazK]

That is a serious operation and it definitely won't be the only one.

The thing with those run of the mill boxes is you see variations in the legit supply line, you haven't a hope in hell of spotting the fakes. I imagine the smokes they put in them are actually going to be of good quality to keep the operation going. Just look at the quality (look, aroma and flavour) of overruns you can get from legit places abroad. Slap some of them lables on and put them in the box and I don't think you'd ever know.

Most folk, myself included, just wouldn't have questioned it about everyday boxes.

The only way around it is to trust your sources.

Agreed 100%. There’s zero hope of spotting a decent fake based on all the wonky official production QC.

Image below I was worried about based on variations on the ribbon and even the bands. Stock bought from an EXTREMELY trusted vendor from Down Under else id shit myself. Forum guys gave me some comfort and the provenance is beyond doubt, but still. Now imagine how little you can trust anything that looks perfect, unless you really know the vendor?!




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[Ivan]

This is pretty crazy!

I would assume this operation would be fairly localised to US, as there is no official distributor for Habonos. So its a bit of a cowboy market for Cubans with all the third party importers.

[ha_banos]

This is pretty crazy!

I would assume this operation would be fairly localised to US, as there is no official distributor for Habonos. So its a bit of a cowboy market for Cubans with all the third party importers.

No way I'd assume that. The US and Caribbean sure, majority. But they'll make their way to Spain and Europe I'd image. Anywhere they can make money! There's the China major counterfeit's too that I think we talked about previously. Same thing. Major production. I wouldn't be surprised if the China outfit supplied the bands, boxes.

These fakes make it into grey market vendors, and even legit unscrupulous vendors. The risk of stumbling across a fake PSD4 vs CoRo? I really couldnt say.

For the legit vendors I'd hope there's too much to lose.

[liles]

This is pretty crazy!

I would assume this operation would be fairly localised to US, as there is no official distributor for Habonos. So its a bit of a cowboy market for Cubans with all the third party importers.

Nah, definitely a few of these operations in Europe as well, or at least supplying into them.

I think it's kinda a problem of Habanos own doing. They have moved away from selling cigars as a product, now they sell brands. The "fake" cigars could still be a very high quality product but without that fancy banding and box, it would never shift at a fraction of the value that Habanos is achieving. There's a reason that fake Cuban factory also seems to be making fake footwear - it's all about the brand.

[liles]

That is a serious operation and it definitely won't be the only one.

The thing with those run of the mill boxes is you see variations in the legit supply line, you haven't a hope in hell of spotting the fakes. I imagine the smokes they put in them are actually going to be of good quality to keep the operation going. Just look at the quality (look, aroma and flavour) of overruns you can get from legit places abroad. Slap some of them lables on and put them in the box and I don't think you'd ever know.

Most folk, myself included, just wouldn't have questioned it about everyday boxes.

The only way around it is to trust your sources.

You know it's a fake box of Cubans when you don't find a single plugged stogie

[SonicStag]

I can’t believe all the different brands in this setup, even the less sort after brands & not just limited editions, it would appear to be regular products

[MrMaduro]

No way I'd assume that. The US and Caribbean sure, majority. But they'll make their way to Spain and Europe I'd image. Anywhere they can make money! There's the China major counterfeit's too that I think we talked about previously. Same thing. Major production. I wouldn't be surprised if the China outfit supplied the bands, boxes.

These fakes make it into grey market vendors, and even legit unscrupulous vendors. The risk of stumbling across a fake PSD4 vs CoRo? I really couldnt say.

For the legit vendors I'd hope there's too much to lose.

With China being one of the main reasons stocks are low and prices are high, they are fuelling this from that direction too.

Dry up the market, then release a load of fakes when people are eager to buy!

[ha_banos]

With China being one of the main reasons stocks are low and prices are high, they are fuelling this from that direction too.

Dry up the market, then release a load of fakes when people are eager to buy!

You make it sound like a cunning plan!

[PeeJay]

Those photos look exactly like the outfit in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic described to me by a tour guide last time I was lucky enough to be there.

[Deano]

Agreed 100%. There’s zero hope of spotting a decent fake based on all the wonky official production QC.

Image below I was worried about based on variations on the ribbon and even the bands. Stock bought from an EXTREMELY trusted vendor from Down Under else id shit myself. Forum guys gave me some comfort and the provenance is beyond doubt, but still. Now imagine how little you can trust anything that looks perfect, unless you really know the vendor?!




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This is why all the Redditors on cubancigars make me laugh. They all judge the authenticity of a cuban by it's bands etc, but Cuba is notorious for quality control (even in the bands they get from elsewhere) and you can't merely judge anything based on the bands - except of course if they're truely bad!