Are CC's a bit in danger of 'falling behind'

[Burner]

Very well said Monkey you've hot the mail on the head.

[Pipe Dude]

Does anyone really believe that the Cuban industry is ever going to adversely suffer in the foreseeable future.

If you mean in my/our lifetime, I can see it. If the borders open up with the USA again, I can see demand being so overwhelming that I fear the product will suffer as they try to cope - either that or the prices will rocket and only the richest folks will be able to afford to buy from the limited supply. Not good for us either way.

[Seriesteve]

Are CC's a bit in danger of 'falling behind'

No
Ss

[monkey66]

Ahhh ...a different discussion 'would the dropping of the embargo be good for us' kinda thing, you may well be right on that one.

If you mean in my/our lifetime, I can see it. If the borders open up with the USA again, I can see demand being so overwhelming that I fear the product will suffer as they try to cope - either that or the prices will rocket and only the richest folks will be able to afford to buy from the limited supply. Not good for us either way.

[Aussiewaz]

I think this is a valid but probably academic discussion.

Does anyone really believe that the Cuban industry is ever going to adversely suffer in the foreseeable future. If anything I would imagine the US market will go wild with demand if the embargo is ever dropped. I am sure some BOTLs will not be so influenced but many others will still crave what they perceive as the 'real deal'.

The NC products have come a hell of a long way but with a market the size of the US (and now world-wide) there should be sufficient cash for great product development.

I think that there appears to be great value in the low to mid-market NC's but the top end stuff seems as rare and expensive as the CC's. For me this is the fundamental issue, as I only average 1 stick per week I am only really looking at the top end and here the NC offering is not so competitive IMHO (still happy to have my mind changed on this though )

To be clear I am not trying to sound snobby about CC vs NC just share my experience so far at the top-end of the ranges (I think that in most cases a ?20-40 CC beats a ?20-40 NC pretty much every time).

So why is this relevant to this discussion (just remembered what this thread was about ...doh). I guess product development is only one part of a subjectively valued item like a cigar. Compared to wine there are some great new world products, fantastic advances in production methods and consistency but there is no change in site to the top-end domination of the Grand Cru's and their intangible, unmeasurable, invaluable terroir, history and romance (sound like Cuba?). So for this reason I don't see any significant danger of falling behind within a global market.

Nicely said. There it is in a nutsack......umm..... nutshell!

[gt3911]

Ahhh ...a different discussion 'would the dropping of the embargo be good for us' kinda thing, you may well be right on that one.

That's an interesting one - People mention frequently that we would suffer more so on price, quality and availability if the embargo was removed. I'm not to sure how true this is. Cuba isn't having an easy time of it in the recession. I recall they had to reduce their 2009 crop by 30%. Is it not possible that by opening up the NA market they will obtain more wealth, invest more and possibly provide us with a better product? Is it that you think they'll run out of room to plant??? I think prices changing will probably be inevitable as it will do great things for the Cuban economy. I expect to see some bad years until the crop catches up with demand.

You might also suffer with this 'choice terrorism' but I'm sure we'd cope, and it can only push the CC quality to better itself if the likes of Padron, Olivia, La Aurora, Fuente, CAO, Davidoff began to step into the CC range.... Which to me, is something worth thinking about.

if it aint broken dont fix it....i feel there is plenty o variety when it comes to cc and as said before the RE and ELs keep things interesting.

I'm glad there are not thousands of CC brands like NC, as the majority of NC suck! When trying to find that diamond in the rough its almost not worth it.

I have to agree with K - I see nothing wrong with the current selection, and have little interest in them trying new, weird, and gimmicky things just for the sake of change. This is a product that's been refined and changed very slightly over centuries.

I also have to agree on the over populated NC selection, there is a lot of 'fodder' and as Lionhound pointed out, some of us don't care to 'waste our time' sifting through it all.

[tippexx]

I guess product development is only one part of a subjectively valued item like a cigar. Compared to wine there are some great new world products, fantastic advances in production methods and consistency but there is no change in site to the top-end domination of the Grand Cru's and their intangible, unmeasurable, invaluable terroir, history and romance (sound like Cuba?). So for this reason I don't see any significant danger of falling behind within a global market.

Top end domination, as may be, but what's that when once they had total domination. But OK, fortunately for France the world market for wine has grown in pace with the New World producers who weren't much overwealmed by the notion of French wine superiority..... or their intangible, unmeasurable, invaluable terroir, history and romance (sound like BSA, Norton, Matchless?).

The French though to their credit have not been sitting on their hands and have adopted New World techniques into their production methods.

[tippexx]

[QUOTE=gt3911;102587]



I have to agree with K - I see nothing wrong with the current selection,


Agreed. But I see nothing wrong in trying to improve a vitola. Wether it be by leaf, production consistency, face-lift branding or by general improvement in the supply chain.

[Stevieboy]

I love CCs and have no time whatsoever for NCs myself...I've tried dozens of different NCs to know they pale in comparison to CCs........each to their own

I really love hunting down the RE range when away on holiday.....

[Simon-JG-hr]

Is it not possible that by opening up the NA market they will obtain more wealth, invest more and possibly provide us with a better product?

We can but wish. However, as Cuba is a communist country, I can't see it...

I think the Cubans aren't currently in any danger of falling behind. As I see it, there are some very good NCs - the really good ones tend to be rather limited in their production lines (think Padron, Fuente and Tatuaje). They are the ones most likely to actually have success against Cuban competition - problem is, there is not enough spare capacity to market them widely outside of the States. It certainly sounds as though the UK importers are almost having to beg, borrow and steal to get some of the new and quality stuff into the country, and not in great quantities (as the American market is these companies' target).

Also, as others have said, a lot of the NC range is utter crap, making it difficult to see the forest for the trees.

The Cubans have certainly seemed to have found a winner in the RE and EL range of cigars - it keeps people interested, looking to see what's coming out this year and hunting down the more unusual stuff. Where I think the Cubans have gone wrong is some of the decisions they've made regarding deletions - it now seems almost impossible to find a narrow guage cigar unless you're happy to shell out ridiculous amounts for a Cohiba panatela or lancero.

[Stevieboy]

Slightly OT and it's been said many times before...the lifting of the embargo will cause huge copyright problems for Cuban companies trying to trade in the US eg Partagas, HdM, Monte, RyJ as they all exist as NCs in the US. I can't imagine the owners of the US name-sakes allowing a single Cuban stick into the country without their lawyers coming down like a ton of bricks.. I can't see how a lot of Cuban brands could ever legally be sold for this reason...

[Simon-JG-hr]

Half of them are, essentially, owned by the same company. The Impreial Tobacco Group (who own a number of the NC/US names, e.g. Upmann, Monte, RyJ) wholly own Altadis, who in turn 'own' half of Habanos SA. All in all, therefore, it will likely come down to a heated debate in a boardroom somewhere in Bristol as to who gets the copyright in America.

[Stevieboy]

Half of them are, essentially, owned by the same company. The Impreial Tobacco Group (who own a number of the NC/US names, e.g. Upmann, Monte, RyJ) wholly own Altadis, who in turn 'own' half of Habanos SA. All in all, therefore, it will likely come down to a heated debate in a boardroom somewhere in Bristol as to who gets the copyright in America.

Jeez! My head hurts...

[cohibaIV]

Jeez! My head hurts...

Yep...Mine too!

[leperaffinity]

Its that very reason why i go for Nc's over CC's. They both have there place in my humi, and i love them both, but Nc's have a much larger variety , i seem to buy and smoke many more Nc's than CC's.

im leaning towards this right now..the NC's seem to end up being cheaper, better made and taste that of a similar calibre. if they CC market is peaking or still rising though...then fine haha