Plume vs mold - from facebook

[the pondering moose]

Aflatoxin... well that has fame preceding it. And good to know that "plume" is not destroyed by temperature maxima/minima, normally experienced by cigars.

I shall be proceeding with any such sticks cautiously, under advisement, or until more evidence surfaces.

[Simon Bolivar]

Good work so far on the research Marc; however C.A.'s have been brushing off the odd spot of white fluffy stuff since Columbus's day & not many have been reported with lung infections. I'll continue to brush off, using a hog hair art brush, done away from my humi's so the spores don't end up back in there & smoke those sticks first. The exception being if the mould is on the foot & then I always doubted the burning stick would be sufficient to kill the spores (very tough little buggers spores) & then I'd clip an inch off. If it was mould that wouldn't brush off, return or if too late after purchase- cut off offending section; if evenly distributed ditch.

I think the main point to remember is plume if you should ever see it is fine (another debate if it's a sign a a great cigar) but mould in any shape or colour is bad & if not dealt with & humidity corrected as far as possible, it will spread & you could lose a box of a drawer full of smokes. Generally the horror pictures will be from collections that haven't been checked & tended, I wasn't going to publish these photos originally but just to demonstrate how it can happen quickly, these two Punch were foine 4-6wks before I found them in this state. So the weather & humidity were just fine for the mould to suddenly take hold on these 1960's Punch PC's. They were the only two cigars in the drawer to have a single spot of mould on them but no doubt it would have spread if not brushed off. I smoked them that week with my friend Zowie (I did inform him of the situation) & they were wonderful vintage smokes & I would have wept to have thrown them away.
Nothing was noted on the feet & no signs since of respiratory or lung infection.

Of course everyone has to make their own decisions but regular attention is the key. Once your collection gets over a 50-60 boxes this takes a little more time than a couple of desktops but just think how much money is tied up in those delicate leaves & that should be enough incentive to keep at it. Also good time to check for weevil holes or other signs of infestation. You can imagine that suppliers with thousands of boxes can't possible check them all & that's how you will occasionally get a problem from them. I just bought a couple of packs of cigars at Brussels Duty Free; the Cohiba 's were fine but the Monte No3's had a bit of mould on. I checked these at my destination, brushed them off & they are doing fine.
The last photo shows the Punch back in the drawer after cleaning, not one of the other Punch had a spot on them.

[sheppsea]

Plume vs mold - from facebook

Wow, Marc is actually making this debate interesting

Personally I am sceptical on whether plume even exists, but to have a scientific answer either way would be fantastic

[ValeTudoGuy]

Update: After Cambridge directed me to Kew I decided to make another contact, this time at Leeds.

I have received a reply from the Principal clinical scientist of their Mycology Reference Centre, he also suggests that we are almost certainly dealing with fungal growth and has specifically highlighted "Aspergillus, Fusarium, Alternaria and Peronospora tabacina" as possibilities. He also directed me to Kew Fungarium.

He was not made aware of my contact with Cambridge in any way, but was provided with idential information and pictures.

Again, not waterproof evidence... But to me this is stacking evidence pretty quickly in a certain direction.

[ValeTudoGuy]

For clarity, I am yet to receive a reply from Oxford. I also contacted Lancaster but they made it hard work even figuring out who to correspond with so I didn't follow up with them.

[smokeymo]

Its bloom ( or plume) on the BBF's. I have discussed the subject on and off with Simon Chase for the last quarter of a century. I'm quite confident I can tell the difference.

If any of you chaps would like to arrange for a group to come to our office I am very happy to show you various different examples ( and have a tasting session in the sampling room of some cigars from our vast range)

Best

Mitchell

[Horsebox]

That's a smashing offer [MENTION=667]smokeymo[/MENTION]


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[the pondering moose]

Most gentlemanly, and thank you Mitchell. Even if I was not in a position to join any such a viewing/exposition/sampling (largely on geographical grounds, being on the south coast), in potentia, it may put to bed some "cigar anxiety". That would be a very good thing.

[Emaresee]

Its bloom ( or plume) on the BBF's. I have discussed the subject on and off with Simon Chase for the last quarter of a century. I'm quite confident I can tell the difference.

If any of you chaps would like to arrange for a group to come to our office I am very happy to show you various different examples ( and have a tasting session in the sampling room of some cigars from our vast range)

Best

Mitchell

Bravo that man. Evidence and a unified view is invariably helpful. I'm in. No doubt pick up a stick and a dram or two also!

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[sheppsea]

Plume vs mold - from facebook

Its bloom ( or plume) on the BBF's. I have discussed the subject on and off with Simon Chase for the last quarter of a century. I'm quite confident I can tell the difference.

If any of you chaps would like to arrange for a group to come to our office I am very happy to show you various different examples ( and have a tasting session in the sampling room of some cigars from our vast range)

Best

Mitchell

Bravo Mitchell for weighing in and defending your products, its always good to see companies engaging with their customers

I do wonder though, whether the discussion would be better served if these cigars with plume were made available for [MENTION=13402510]ValeTudoGuy[/MENTION]'s efforts to get a scientific answer to what plume is rather than invite members to view them?

Obviously they are not to be smoked and I'm sure could easily be returned

[smokeymo]

Sure Shepsea,good idea and I dare say we can work something out. Why not. Contact by email please sales@cgarsltd.co.uk

Cheers

Mitchell

[Emaresee]

Anyone want to run point on this outing? If not i am happy to do so....?

[JohnL]

Its bloom ( or plume) on the BBF's. I have discussed the subject on and off with Simon Chase for the last quarter of a century. I'm quite confident I can tell the difference.

If any of you chaps would like to arrange for a group to come to our office I am very happy to show you various different examples ( and have a tasting session in the sampling room of some cigars from our vast range)

Best

Mitchell

Bloom is different from plume. Bloom is a Uk term from H&F used to describe mould. I could look up the exact wording but it was something along the lines of white patches are harmless bloom which can be wiped right off and just show your cigars are alive or something similar. I think there is a reason they chose to invent this term of bloom rather than use the established term of plume. Plume is believed to be the crystallization of oils on the wrapper, but what it actually is has never been proven. Mould with all due respect is what you have on a lot of your cigars. It would not cost more than 100 pounds for you to disprove this. You could bring one of your infected cigars to a Lab and they they would culture it and tell what is growing on it. I actually chucked a bloomed cigar in the bin this morning as had blossomed on the foot

[Shaun]

Bloom is different from plume. Bloom is a Uk term from H&F used to describe mould. I could look up the exact wording but it was something along the lines of white patches are harmless bloom which can be wiped right off and just show your cigars are alive or something similar. I think there is a reason they chose to invent this term of bloom rather than use the established term of plume. Plume is believed to be the crystallization of oils on the wrapper, but what it actually is has never been proven. Mould with all due respect is what you have on a lot of your cigars. It would not cost more than 100 pounds for you to disprove this. You could bring one of your infected cigars to a Lab and they they would culture it and tell what is growing on it. I actually chucked a bloomed cigar in the bin this morning as had blossomed on the foot

Interesting first post there....

I have to agree with you on this being mold. While I appreciate what Mitchell is saying, I have yet to find anyone who agrees with him on this being a 'bloom' or 'plume'.

[JohnL]

Interesting first post there....

I have to agree with you on this being mold. While I appreciate what Mitchell is saying, I have yet to find anyone who agrees with him on this being a 'bloom' or 'plume'.

Yes strange but informative, not much of a talkative person.

Bloom and plume are not the same.

Bloom is a H&F term for mould I looked up the quote for everyone

A white mould-like substance appears on my cigars periodically. Is this harmful?
No – this is called ‘bloom’ and occurs naturally on Havanas when they are subjected to a sudden increase in humidity. It is a sign that the cigars are alive and well and should simply be removed with a soft brush.

http://www.cigars.co.uk/qanda/

Now no one in the cigar industry has ever said plume can be caused by a sudden increase in humidity but it is well known the mould can form this way. Try it yourself.

Let me say this though I dont believe a little mould is the end of the world we are dealing with a hand made natural product it will happen, wipe off and smoke away but not a thing to be proud of thats for sure or something to leave on too grow.