A question about aging...

[Niela]

Hey Everybody,

I just checked the box code of a bunch of Upmans 46 that I had and smoked for a while. I was surprised to see that they were from 2008. I remember that I bought some older ones in Malta last year but I wasn't much aware of the actual age of my cigars until I got a bit more into the topic.

I must say I never smoked a fresh Upman, but I have had a fresh Partagas P2 and it was rather awful.

There are also a bunch of Punch Punch that I bought but I am not sure of the boxing date. What I do know though is that they have a strong bitter note to them. Therefore I used to give them away freely.

With a few of both left I wondered when to best smoke them.

If I get it right then cigars gain in flavour the first couple of years before they state taste bland/bad. Then after around 10 years they gain new flavours and become real gems.

Did I get that right? Does anybody have more information about what's happening to them during the aging process and what flavours prevail at which stage?

[wayne_w]

I have always understood that with Cubans, they are generally 'sick' during the first year - In that they still contain ammonia which affects their taste etc.
From that, they do smoke & taste better even with a couple of years of age on them. It does seem though, that most are at their best with around 5 yrs+ on them.
Non-Cubans do not seem to have this trait & therefore can be enjoyed quite young.
You are right in think that Cubans do improve with age, I'm not sure where their 'sweet spot' would be, other than my theory of 5+ yrs.
Hopefully I've tried to help & not confuse you!!


Wayne

[Niela]

I understand that much. But I watched this video on YouTube where the guy talks about a phase in the aging process where the cigar actually looses its flavours before it picks up some new ones that can only be achieved after a decade or two.

https://youtu.be/PHbLoU4Ud0I

So I am not sure if I should smoke my 7 year old upmans now or wait another 5 years to get something outstanding?

[Sligub]

Very, very oversimplified but

Mild 2-5 years
Medium 4-8 years
Full 5-15 years

The only problems with any "rule" in this hobby is its all personal choice, some people love fresh/young bolivar where I wouldn't smoke one with out 5+ years on it. My personal method is try one, if it's smoking well smoke more if not revisit in a year or so. I would guess your upmanns will be good to go.


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[Krist]

This is an interesting topic for sure! I have had both very fresh cigars and aged, up to about 12-15 years nothing like the couple of decades, however the only real difference I notice is that the flavours no longer become flavours.

Let me try and explain what I mean, when you have a fruit cake, christmas cake for example, you can either make it months in advance or you can make it the week before. The week before, you can taste the currants, orange, brandy, sugar, spices etc. whereas a cake that has been made months before tastes completely different the flavours turn into more of a single complex flavour, it still has all the same ingredients, however they have only complimented each other, not dulled, but merged.

Has anyone else any thoughts on what the ageing process does? or can teach me something I don't know?

I honestly like both aged and fresh cigars.

[TheMonk]

Very interesting thread, gents! I've only had the opportunity to try a few aged cigars that I also tried as fresh, and I have to say that I mostly (if not totally) preferred the aged versions.

[dvickery]

Why I age cigars ... Balance .

Generally speaking ... i have found ... Over the years ... Strength increases for 10 or so years ... Flavours develop but not at the same rate . Some milder cigars come into balance sooner than stronger cigars .

time and experience ... The only way to learn .

for what it's worth ... An example of ( I believe ) sublime balance at a ( relatively ) young age ... Quai dorsay coronas from '01 .

derrek

[tippexx]

So I am not sure if I should smoke my 7 year old upmans now or wait another 5 years to get something outstanding?

You can't have it both ways without having a large number of cigars. If you're a regular smoker with 75 count humidor, then deliberate ageing isn't really possible. To age cigars you have to lay them down in their boxes for some fair few years but at the same time carry on smoking and enjoying your cigars. Many BOTL buy 2 boxes or more of the same at a time. One to smoke the rest to age. It's an expensive business, but the only way to do it unless you want to short-cut and simply but 'aged'.

Personally I would smoke the 7 year Upmann's one a year for the next 5 years, that way you'll get 4 very good smokes and 3 (hopefully) exceptional ones.

[Niela]

Personally I would smoke the 7 year Upmann's one a year for the next 5 years, that way you'll get 4 very good smokes and 3 (hopefully) exceptional ones.

So you can't confirm the information in the video that a cigar drops flavour after a few years, before it picks up new flavours after a longer time of aging? If I got Dr. Joe right my Upmanns should loose flavour about now and then come back with new additions that do not exist yet, but will in another 5-7 years.

I do agree with the 2 boxes or a cigar. Will definitely try to do that.

[tippexx]

If I've got Dr Joe right he's one of these cigar experts who know something about everything and nothing about anything. Cigars don't loose flavour they loose nicotine. Flavours do mellow and develop, but there can be nothing extra in a cigar which isn't already there. Think of flavours as a herd of galloping horses, at times the grey will be at the front and at others the chestnut etc. etc. and sometimes a flavour can be so far back you don't even realise it's there until it hits the front. Peaks of intense flavour and troughs of dull, flat flavour do occure, but the 'whens' aren't predictable by marque or vitola, they can happen anytime and the durations can be short, long or terminal.

Your cigars will age, as to how well, you can only find out by trying one every now and again, and which is the whole point of the hobby, savouring and enjoying the difference and changes. Not to do so is like keeping an Aston Martin in the garage on the basis that it will run better when Esso bring out a new improved fuel. It might well do, but you won't get much fun out of the car in the waiting. Just smoke 'em!

[Niela]

Hm... I did some more research on the net and found this article:

https://www.cubanbest.com/helpful-hints/aging-your-cigar

As I understand it there are 3 periods of aging. The first one gets rid of ammonia, the second is a break down of tannins, turning them into sugar and adding new flavours and the third one is a matter of myths and uncertainty.

I feel determined to try a 20 year old partagas now...! 😀 Anybody got some lying around and happy to donate for research? 😉

[Budgie Smuggler]

I have a handful of 98 Partagas, Punch & Saint Luis Rey, all really nice sticks.


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[tippexx]

the second is a break down of tannins,

Tannins protect the aromatic substances from being destroyed by microorganisms. However, tannins themselves are also organic substances: five - six years - the "lifetime" of tannins - is considered the optimum period of aging for cigars.

Cigars do not acquire and cannot acquire new flavours because all flavour sensation is chemical reaction from chemicals that are already there .... if what you're thinking could happen then the brands and vitola as you know them could not exist because they would be continually in flux. Habanos would not be able to confidently roll PDS4 if they thought they were going to turn into something else. The vitola charateristic leaf requirements are 'knowns' and the aging characteristics are reasonably predicable but cannot be guaranteed. All flavour in cigars is uncertain, because it's sensation is totally dependent on an interaction between chemical smoke and receptors in our conks. We're each different, what you might experience I might not. Don't worry too much about 'helpful hints' .... just the one cigar in your mouth at the time.

[TheMonk]

Your cigars will age, as to how well, you can only find out by trying one every now and again, and which is the whole point of the hobby, savouring and enjoying the difference and changes. Not to do so is like keeping an Aston Martin in the garage on the basis that it will run better when Esso bring out a new improved fuel. It might well do, but you won't get much fun out of the car in the waiting. Just smoke 'em!

Fantastic information, and excellent analogy. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.