Sick Period.

[tippexx]

Yesterday I reviewed the Montecristo Montecristo D LE 2005. To say I wasn't impressed would be an understatement. On the smoking the cigar was to my mind totally bland, lacking in interest or character.

However, comments I've read from BOTL who's opinions I respect (El Cat, Captain Quintero) suggest the opposite. I have only smoked the one Montecristo D and so might be guilty of slandering the cigar if it was going through a maturation trough, but not having smoked one before I would have no way of knowing.

I have, (I believe) experienced 'sick period' cigars. These have always been cigars I was familiar with and so could recognise the possibility. To me the symptoms are a general flattening, muffling and confusion in flavour with a general dry tobacco taste to the fore often accompanied by a chemical or 'soapy' acridity.

Now, trying a vitola for the first time and hitting a 'sick' example can very easily create a wrong impression and put someone a certain cigar forever. How, without throwing money at example after example, do you differentiate between that which is poorly and that which is just plain poor?

[El Catador]

comments I've read from BOTL who's opinions I respect (El Cat, Captain Quintero) suggest the opposite.

Me..?
Respect my opinions..?
(Call a Medic.. the old boy's finally lost it!)

In fairness, I have to say, I've had good and bad encounters with this particular LE.. Though never great, which probably explains why there's still a few unsold boxes knocking around.
I haven't smoked one recently, so can't really comment on the issue of a late maturation 'sick period', though it's something I've encountered a little too often of late.. oddly enough, usually with other LE's..
Perhaps Habanos should stop deleting so many of the tried and tested 'classic' cigars.. and rethink their strategy of flooding the market with untried LE blends.. (I'm getting a bit tired of being a 'Guinea pig' for, what are too often, indifferent, over-priced dog-rockets.. Cohiba 66 I'm looking at you!).

[tippexx]

I haven't smoked one recently, so can't really comment on the issue of a late maturation 'sick period', though it's something I've encountered a little too often of late.. oddly enough, usually with other LE's..

Thanks Cat, to be honest I was beginning to doubt my judgement.


I've smoked 2 LE and 1 RE so far in the Lonsdales reviews. The PL Encantos and Trinidad Ingenios wern't in my opinion that good, although the Encantos might have promise. The Monte D in comparison was totally dire and the worst of the three and no match to any of the production models.


If the Monte D was bad then it deserved the bad review I gave it. But if it was sick then it deserves some excusing recognition to that effect (but I don't know if it was or not).

Or, it might be me. My taste-buds not being able to recognise certain tastes maybe?

[monkey66]

I think we probably need to split the EL and the Sick period discussion as they are not the same (don't get me started on those stupid maduro wrappers).

Ultimately it is unknown if and when a stick will come good. Will those D's taste good in another 5-10 years, another 20, another 50?

I think all we have to go on is collective experience (Forums/Min Ron Nee/Herfs etc.), personal experience and instinct (smell, look feel touch).

For ageing potential I do feel the raw ingredients need to be there, sometimes they are masked by youth, sometimes they are just not visible at all.

For me the monte D has never been right and the most it will ever do is mellow down to the point where it is smokeable. Now this could be completely wrong and in 10 years time will be a great stick but so what. We have to buy, pick and age based on each of our personal formed positions. If this were not the case we would all have identical humidors.

It is the nature of the product that there will be huge swings in opinion, pallet and product consistency.

I am reminded of a session in JJ Fox earlier this year where we saw very different smokes from the same well aged box, copied the observations below:

...Rob Fox joins us and passes round some mystery sticks (selected by Jean from Foxes vaults). There were about 4 coronas and 4 robusto's all un-banded. three of us went for the corona and one for the robusto. I had noting to report on the nose but my construction was excellent. As we cracked into them Rob told us what we had, the robusto (which I didn't smoke) was a '91 D4. Rob had one and thought it was a bit flat but Gerry reported a terrific smoke full of different meat flavors.

I smoked the corona which was clearly old, full bodied and plenty of smoke. None of us had any useful guess as to what it was. Rob revealed it was a '74 Fox Exclusive Selection Bolivar Amardo C. It was a really great smoke (and probably one we will never see again). What was very interesting was the difference between the three that were smoked. Mine was almost full bodied loads of smoke and legs for further ageing! The other two were ethereal and medium bodied but certainly had no more legs for ageing. The very clear conclusion for us is there is no conclusion when it comes to 40 year old sticks. If you had smoked one in isolation it would have been easy to put the box down for another 10 years or hand them all out as they have got to be smoked.

We then debated the possibilities of sticks in different positions in the box ageing differently over 40 years (nearer the box joins etc).


What am I trying to say ...I guess if it looks good and smells good to you buy, age and enjoy. If it looks and tastes rank to you probably don't. The randomness of the process is all part of the journey.

[TJCoro]

So You Say!

My dear amigos, senorsKat and TripleXXX,

As it so happens, I've had the pleasure to enjoy this fine puro a few years ago and found it to be quite enjoyable; full of character and stuff like that. But after reading your comments, perhaps I'll liberate a few sticks from don TJ's massive unit and give 'em a go this weekend.

But what's all this talk about late-maturation sick period? I've never heard of it .
To the best of my knowledge, the so-called sick period refers to the 12 or so months following a freshly rolled puro when the stick begins to ferment....AGAIN!

That's what PappyCoro always told us. But what the Hell does he know? Second attention*, indeed!


Perro, el Perro


*look it up, lads.

[TJCoro]

Say it with pictures!

I think we probably need to split the EL and the Sick period discussion as they are not the same (don't get me started on those stupid maduro wrappers).

Ultimately it is unknown if and when a stick will come good. Will those D's taste good in another 5-10 years, another 20, another 50?

I think all we have to go on is collective experience (Forums/Min Ron Nee/Herfs etc.), personal experience and instinct (smell, look feel touch)....What am I trying to say ...I guess if it looks good and smells good to you buy, age and enjoy. If it looks and tastes rank to you probably don't. The randomness of the process is all part of the journey.

[NOTE: Most of this quote was removed because....well, you know ]

Easy for you to say, chico!

Ray Gay
(Ahem!) Easy there, Ray Gay. You know how sensitive monkeys can be!

[Puff Scotty]

But what's all this talk about late-maturation sick period? I've never heard of it .

I think El Cat's been reading MRN's booky wooky ...a mighty tome it is too! though not as long as Monks posts

[TJCoro]

The Holy Grail!

I think El Cat's been reading MRN's booky wooky ...a mighty tome it is too!

Oh Yeah... I think I have that book somewhere...


Ray Gay

[monkey66]

Multiple sick periods are possible. MRN talks about first, second and third stages of maturation with highs and flats along the way, running 10-40 years. He suggests there may be more/longer but there has not been enough modern day) testing yet for anything conclusive.

[monkey66]

...what me sensitive?




F**k you all ... hows that for short

[TJCoro]

That's Heavy!

Multiple sick periods are possible. MRN talks about first, second and third stages of maturation with highs and flats along the way, running 10-40 years. He suggests there may be more/longer but there has not been enough modern day) testing yet for anything conclusive.

Yeah, yeah....I've read about the so-called maturation stages (and as soon as I find my fork-lift, I'll get the "book" out and read that section again), but I don't equate the sick period with the maturation period!

The so-called "sick period" results from the moisture introduced during the rolling process which, in turn, triggers the fermentation process. Without going back to the "book," I do not think this is the same for the masterbation.... errr, maturation stages.

But what the fig do I know (or care) about this scientific stuff.


Perro, el Perro


Haha! The stupid looking dawg smiley said "maturation"

[Puff Scotty]

Not going to quote TJ (the mad bu**er) but I do believe he is correct (for a change)..

[monkey66]

I think anyone who has sampled a box over 5-10 years has experienced ups and downs. I think 'flat' is just a word. Perhaps a better way of looking at it is that the maturation process does not appear to be linear?

Whatever the terminology used, cigar come and go in enjoyment and character as they age. Sometimes there appears to be multiple-stages of this evolution/phenomena.

[Smallclub]

When my cigars are sick I make them wear a turban.

[tippexx]

The so-called "sick period" results from the moisture introduced during the rolling process which, in turn, triggers the fermentation process.

That, and possibly from a simultaneous catastrophic change in temperature? When did Habanos start freezing?

I've always assumed Habanos would freeze by the pallet. Therefore the cigars in the outside position in boxes at the edges of the stacks would bare the brunt .... most likely hog-wash!