Angry is not the word...

[Puff Scotty]

Of course if it is a non-UK tax paid supplier we won't be discussing their details here (good or bad).

That's not right Monks..leaves the rest of us open to get shafted with bad stogies...If smokin' doesn't get any joy he should as I said Name & Shame!
If not he can always PM everyone..same result!

[monkey66]

That's not right Monks..leaves the rest of us open to get shafted with bad stogies...If smokin' doesn't get any joy he should as I said Name & Shame!
If not he can always PM everyone..same result!

I hear you, its a fine line to manage.

[smokin_e2011]

Just to put everyone at ease, it's not a retailer or supplier any of you use, if you catch my drift....

[nicwing]

Clear as mud. If it isn't a UK supplier there is no point continuing this thread. It's going nowhere.

[Nightwingvyse]

Clear as mud. If it isn't a UK supplier there is no point continuing this thread. It's going nowhere.

Fucking xenophobe

[JOAO LA PEZ]

Just to put everyone at ease, it's not a retailer or supplier any of you use, if you catch my drift....

It might be i do get out a lot more nowadays, a PM would be good just in case i should be passing aforementioned supplier and drop in

[Funkilee]

It might be i do get out a lot more nowadays, a PM would be good just in case i should be passing aforementioned supplier and drop in

Hear hear old boy, how about just using initials, then at least that way those that know know and those that don't will just be like, yeah, whatever?

[Nightwingvyse]

Hear hear old boy, how about just using initials, then at least that way those that know know and those that don't will just be like, yeah, whatever?

This is what i don't understand. It's not like non-UK suppliers hold the secret to the 911 conspiracy or anything. If someone learns of a supplier outside of the UK, it is their choice and their risk alone to use them or not. Otherwise, knowledge of specific suppliers doesn't matter.

[Funkilee]

This is what i don't understand. It's not like non-UK suppliers hold the secret to the 911 conspiracy or anything. If someone learns of a supplier outside of the UK, it is their choice and their risk alone to use them or not. Otherwise, knowledge of specific suppliers doesn't matter.

Don't quite get the , " Otherwise, knowledge of specific suppliers doesn't matter", otherwise what?

initials do not mean mean anything and are not substantive in anyway, i.e. not being complicit in tax evasion in ones own admission!

[Nightwingvyse]

Don't quite get the , " Otherwise, knowledge of specific suppliers doesn't matter", otherwise what?

I meant aside from a person's choice to use them or not.

My point was, why is there censorship on this? Do UK suppliers run this board or something?

[Funkilee]

Nope, but they're the rules! I personally think BOTL should rise up against the tyranny of the UK government having more than their fair share, lets have a demo outside Whitehall!

Supposed to be a big demo there on Nov 5th i hear!

[monkey66]

I meant aside from a person's choice to use them or not.

My point was, why is there censorship on this? Do UK suppliers run this board or something?

Really? Do you really believe that? You may not be aware but this board used to freely discuss any suppliers and be sponsored by one everyone knows. We then (after a short while and some legal council) realised the severe potential criminal liabilities if HMRC chooses to interpret such behaviour as conspiracy to evade taxes. With that in mind we changed our rules (as IMHO any sane person would).

It is fair to say that the risk is fairly low but unfortunately very real. The consequences of an aggressive HMRC prosecution are enough to ruin ones life. Consider your life if your house was raided at dawn, bank accounts were frozen, your computers, mobile phones and passport are confiscated and you need to manage your life, family and job with all of this going on. There have been cases of people committing suicide under the pressure of such investigations ...and later shown to be innocent.

We have seen a significant (publicised) increase in HMRC resource in combating tobacco smuggling. Now whilst this has been triggered by cigarette smuggling we (as a community) unfortunately fall under the same scrutiny.

So the risk is low but the threat is huge.

With this in mind is it any wonder that there is almost none (of the dozens I have seen) of public cigar forums that openly discuss duty free purchasing of tobacco products.

Another consideration (regarding your suggestion that this board is run by the UK cigar industry) is that we (the UK internet forum community) are a very small percentage of UK cigar sales. If we say that there are 300 active forum members in the UK and each one has an average spend of ?1000 PA we have ?300K. H and F's return at Companies House (I just looked it up) shows a turnover of just under ?24M for 2011 (just under ?22M for 2010). So we would represent just over 1% of their sales with those assumptions. Assuming a ?24M PA business can do their sums it is hard to imagine we are even on their radar?

The final point here is that for that for this conspiracy to be true myself, Deano and all of the mods would have to be corrupt liars, or gullible idiots. We are cigar enthusiasts with real lives, real families and real jobs ...not part of some master-plan.


With this overwhelming statement of reasons against such a theory being true (and in the absence of a single item of credible fact to the contrary) I trust there is no longer any doubt on this particular bit of malicious slander? I would even go so far as to say that any informed person (accepting not everyone is informed ...but hopefully are now) who continues to say such things should explain why they are intentionally lying (and most likely committing slander)?

[Eddie]

Yeah we do have massive taxes which in part are squandered but the government. BUT don't forget that the NHS is the worlds 2nd biggest employer (1st being the Chinese army). And although its not ideal is is free at the point of delivery and some of the treatments that we or out loved ones need are getting bloody expensive.

[Nightwingvyse]

Really? Do you really believe that?

The question was entirely rhetorical. I can't believe how seriously you took it. I should've used a sarcastrophe or something.

You may not be aware but this board used to freely discuss any suppliers and be sponsored by one everyone knows. We then (after a short while and some legal council) realised the severe potential criminal liabilities if HMRC chooses to interpret such behaviour as conspiracy to evade taxes. With that in mind we changed our rules (as IMHO any sane person would).

With this in mind is it any wonder that there is almost none (of the dozens I have seen) of public cigar forums that openly discuss duty free purchasing of tobacco products.

Just discussing something illegal in no way incriminates anyone. It's been quite a few decades since authorities in this country started to base prosecution on hard evidence. Discussion of non-UK suppliers may simply be for holiday reasons, or even as gifts for people you know who live out there perhaps. I myself have started a thread asking about suppliers in countries i was to visit on holiday.

So we would represent just over 1% of their sales with those assumptions. Assuming a ?24M PA business can do their sums it is hard to imagine we are even on their radar?

Which actually works for my point.

[Funkilee]

Yeah we do have massive taxes which in part are squandered but the government. BUT don't forget that the NHS is the worlds 2nd biggest employer (1st being the Chinese army). And although its not ideal is is free at the point of delivery and some of the treatments that we or out loved ones need are getting bloody expensive.

You're totally right, i have no issues with paying taxes, i just wish we would get back to nationalising our industries to the continued benefit of the poor, the gap between the haves and have nots is growing and with the increase of 'privatisation' there is a complete conflict of interests between keeping the shareholders happy and looking after the interests of the common man! Lets see what happens with the NHS which is already in a shocking state of affairs!

Next step, the corporately run police!