Another brick in the wall!!

[Vortigan]

I guess that you've probably all picked up on this sometime in the last 24 hours but just in case you haven't...........my apologies if it's been opened up elsewhere on the forum.We all know it's coming anyway but I suppose this brings it a step nearer.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/15/world/asia/australia-tobacco-packaging/index.html

[bfg84]

Knew it was coming I'm afraid, but still WTF!!!!!

[Vortigan]

It's wrong and pointless,certainly as far as cigars are concerned,for so many reasons and it won't make a damn difference (and they know it too) except to serve as a breeding ground for the counterfeit scum!

[Simon Bolivar]

Actually I think it will make a difference to sales, they will drop over time. Current smokers we carry on regardless but I think it will lead to lead people bcoming interested in cigars & taking cigar smoking up. We can debate whether this is desirable or not (obviously bad news for those current smokers who want to continue & find their fav brands, if sales drop the variety availalble will drop as well) but I think the long term outcome is definately not going to be an increase in sales. If there isn't an increase then eventually as the current smokers die off (in all probability of non-smoking related disease or old age) they will be replaced by fewer & fewer cigar smokers.

Whilst I am totally against the white sticks, one thing we have to remember is they are the vast majority of smokers, as their numbers go down, governments will be able to side line us even more. Cigar smokers alone in this country wuld be lucky to influence a single seat in an election.

My sensible suggest for the Aussie Gov is to use plasitc olive wrapper over the original boxes. This is more practical & cost effective & when the wrapper is removed the box, labels holograms ect are all there. Would ultimately help against conterfieters by opening in shop, if not genuine won't pay. Goood suppliers would still be getting form good sources.

[Deano]

It's bad bad news for the UK. Can't they package the actual packaging under the white labelling? I presume this defeats the object, though at least you can't then see the packaging in the shop which is what they say the 'point' is.

Ah as Simon has just said...!

[tippexx]

It's bad bad news for the UK.

Absolutely .... and a poorly aimed shot in their own foot, because when the ciggy Revenue drops off they'll be looking to make it up elsewhere .... and which will impact on all those who aided and abetted with their self righteous clamour or with their silence .... the non-smokers.

[daniel2001]

Absolutely .... and a poorly aimed shot in their own foot, because when the ciggy Revenue drops off they'll be looking to make it up elsewhere .... and which will impact on all those who aided and abetted with their self righteous clamour or with their silence .... the non-smokers.

Yup. Exactly the same problem with Eco cars... Government needs to get the tax revenue from somewhere, hence why some sections of government love the idea of road pricing.

The biggest issue I see for us is that the vast majority of the non cigar smoking population (especially the twit lawmakers) don't see that there is a huge difference between cigars and cigarettes. This makes cigar smoking an easy target (like speeding) that will really have very little impact in the real world, other than to further reduce the freedom's that a democratic society is supposed to embody.

Perhaps the members of UKCF should get together and buy an Island somewhere so we have our own country..... The Great Island Nation of Herfia - where cigar smoking is actively encouraged :-)



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[Wardjrz]

Perhaps the members of UKCF should get together and buy an Island somewhere so we have our own country..... The Great Island Nation of Herfia - where cigar smoking is actively encouraged :-)

Herfia, I like that.

Would residents be Herfians?

I've been called a ruffian before, Herfian would make a nice change.

[crusse]

I know that Herfia would be designed to have democratic values and all that, but I still think that cigar smoking shouldn't just be encouraged on our island, it should be compulsory!!! All citizens who didn't regularly light up a premium cigar would be forced to smoke a packet of Hamlets!

On a more serious note, you have to wonder whether these bureaucrats have given any thought to how plain packaging will affect tax revenue. Maybe smokers' rights groups are barking up the wrong tree when they invoke consumer choice and civil liberties. After all, the bureaucrats clearly couldn't care less about individual freedom. But they definitely do care about money and since plain packaging encourages counterfeiters, it would lose them a lot of revenue. This seems like an argument that they might actually listen to.

On the other hand, maybe I'm giving the lawmakers too much credit by assuming that they're unpleasant but basically rational people. They might be quite happy to take away our freedom and score a massive own goal at the same time for reasons that don't even make sense to them. If this is the case then we're all screwed.

[JOAO LA PEZ]

An organized campaign of civil disobedience is whats needed, try to imagine how the police and judiciary would cope if a large volume of smokers turned up at indoor shopping malls and started smoking, absolute chaos, all the prisons are full, most cop shops can only hold a couple of dozen in the cells, do that on a regular basis and the government would have to look up.

no prizes for guessing who one of my biggest hero's is.

[tippexx]

After all, the bureaucrats clearly couldn't care less about individual freedom. But they definitely do care about money

maybe I'm giving the lawmakers too much credit by assuming that they're unpleasant but basically rational people. They might be quite happy to take away our freedom and score a massive own goal at the same time for reasons that don't even make sense to them.

Far too much credit. And the reasons DO make sense to them. Power.

The clue is in the word. Demos = 'common people' Kratos = 'rule' 'strength'. Politicians will lie, promise, do anything to get themselves elected in our name. And once elected the first part of the word goes out the window, along with ears and common sense. And no matter what they do, no matter how obviously wrong or whatever the cost they will always claim that the power which we've given them somehow imparted an intellectual superiority with which they can 'tap us on the head' and tell us not to concern ourselves with issues beyond our capabilities. And so what if anything goes wrong, there's no come back. They lock everything away for 25 to 50 years, after which time all the main instigators are dead and the common people are still picking up the bill.

As for Bureaucrats, democracy isn't part of the vocabulary. Departments and Local Authorities are run like autocratic fiefdoms.

[SmokeyDave]

Politician will always back the surefire vote winners, you will never hear an MP state that speeding is not a major contributor to accidents etc.
Smokers are an easy target, especially ones that buy over the counter, much the same as motorcyclists are an easy target because we stand out and are a minority. Reminds me of an article a few months back regarding minority victimization, basically get your chosen subject (cigars or the act of smoking a cigar) made into a recognised religion, then you get all the legal protection a religion confers.

Anyone for Church of the Leaf?

Cigar smoking is central to our beliefs and integral to our day to day worship.

All hail the great Habano

[tippexx]

Anyone for Church of the Leaf?

Don't see why not Dave. Ganja is central to Rastafarianism!

[crusse]

Far too much credit. And the reasons DO make sense to them. Power.

The clue is in the word. Demos = 'common people' Kratos = 'rule' 'strength'. Politicians will lie, promise, do anything to get themselves elected in our name. And once elected the first part of the word goes out the window, along with ears and common sense. And no matter what they do, no matter how obviously wrong or whatever the cost they will always claim that the power which we've given them somehow imparted an intellectual superiority with which they can 'tap us on the head' and tell us not to concern ourselves with issues beyond our capabilities. And so what if anything goes wrong, there's no come back. They lock everything away for 25 to 50 years, after which time all the main instigators are dead and the common people are still picking up the bill.

As for Bureaucrats, democracy isn't part of the vocabulary. Departments and Local Authorities are run like autocratic fiefdoms.

But assuming that the politicians and bureaucrats only care about money and power (which go hand in hand: exercising power costs money, i.e. tax revenue), then plain packaging makes no sense. It would encourage counterfeiting which would mean less tax revenue. Since the black market is unregulated, it would also mean less government control over the tobacco industry. This is why I think that the politicians and bureaucrats don't really understand the implications of plain packaging and haven't really thought the plan through beyond their hunch that it might be a vote winner. A greedy and power-hungry but basically rational person who knew what he was doing would not go for the plain packaging idea. I don't think that this idea is so much a product of power crazed rulers as a result of utter incompetence.

[Dherm]

I think you only need 30 members or followers to register a religion. I remember when "Jedi" was made into a bonafide religion in the 80's so why not and you have your beliefs legally protected.