Vintage?

[tippexx]

I have a bit of a problem with the word. When does a cigar become 'vintage', how old does it need to be. For cars to be classified as vintage in the UK they have to have been built between 1919 and 1930. A 'classic' car on the other hand needs to be 25 to 30 years old, and must be a highly sought after vehicle or it won't qualify.

I can fully relate to a full box of a pre-1990 discontinued vitola being sold as vintage. But, it isn't uncommon to see sites offering 2003, 2004, 2005 standard vitola (boxes and singles) as vintage and at a slight premium. I wouldn't classify these as vintage, at best they are aged. Some discontinued vitola from those years I would classify as rare, others are still sitting on shelves hardly moving.

Here in the UK when I buy online I always ask the vendors to scribble the picking box date on the delivery note. To receive back cigars from 2003, 04, 05 is not uncommon, I've even had 98s. CGars, JJFox or mysmokingshop charge for these at normal price, not at a premium. So back to my question.

When does a cigar become Vintage and can all cigars of a certain age really qualify, because years don't always improve everything?

[daniel2001]

At a guess, it becomes vintage when people will pay more for it...

I've seen similar discussions on every guitar forum I've ever been a member of. Typically, we say a guitar 25 or more years old is vintage, which means that some of the dreadful examples produced by the big names (thinking Fender and Gibson) in the 80's (and 70's) are ow increasing in value, despite how crap they are.


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[Dherm]

This is a " can of worms" topic Arf, this is what I found and it seems the" Vintage" is an interpretation on the behalf of and the understanding of the company, retailer and the buyer. The problem seems to be there is no regulatory body or an industry standard set.

"The idea of the vintage cigar is an elusive target since there is no standard or general agreement about what the term means. Though there is no standard definition of what constitutes a vintage cigar, the term generally applies to cigars whose tobaccos have been aged for an extended time period. In some cases it is just the outer wrapper that has been aged, in other cases the aged tobacco includes the binder and filler tobacco. Manufacturers have different ideas on how to define the aging of their tobacco. Some say it's the year that the out wrapper was grown, while others say it refers to the year the binder and filler was grown. Vintage cigar tobacco is often aged longer before appearing on the market, though some manufacturers will put the vintage date on the label, others will not. This makes for real difficulty when trying to select an aged cigar to be purchased."

[tippexx]

Vintage cigar tobacco is often aged longer before appearing on the market, though some manufacturers will put the vintage date on the label, others will not. This makes for real difficulty when trying to select an aged cigar to be purchased."

Yes, a can of worms, but an interesting one I hope.

Vintage as a word comes from the French with it's use in the description of Wine. (A wine from) the grape-harvest of a certain (particularly good) year. The qualifier being that the year has to be 'particularly good'. Wines from poor years are not vintage.

[peanutpete]

a good question Arf a few of us on here went to an opening of a smoking terrace a year or so ago and a few eye brows were raised when the vintage cigar on offer was a boliver royal corona with ( i think) 3 years on it

[James811]

a few of us on here went to an opening of a smoking terrace a year or so ago and a few eye brows were raised when the vintage cigar on offer was a boliver royal corona with ( i think) 3 years on it

Blimey! In that case I have 5 vintage cigars in my humi at home, any takers at ?100?

Hahahaha

[spirit_of_will]

a good question Arf a few of us on here went to an opening of a smoking terrace a year or so ago and a few eye brows were raised when the vintage cigar on offer was a boliver royal corona with ( i think) 3 years on it

That is certainly pushing the boundaries of the description. I'd say that pre-1998 might be vintage to me, mainly as you don't see much stock that old kicking about. Pre-2005 is aged in my book...


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[Smallclub]

Generally, in Switzerland and France, the standard is:
up to 1 year = fresh
1 to 5 = young
5 to 10 = aged
10 and beyond = vintage

[whisky77]

I have a box of 2005 Upmann LE Mag 50 and I would not think of them as being "Vintage". Anything from the late nineties would be more likely to be classed as vintage, however this does not mean they are going to be a good smoke.

There were a lot of crap smokes from the late nineties, as everyone knows.

[monkey66]

In the modern vanacular (outside of established markets such as wine or cars) there is often no clear definition of 'vintage'.

There are so many new collectable markets that have sprung up (games consuls, toys, mobile phones, hifi etc) fuelled by demographic groups coming of age, with disposable income and the internet (forums/ebay/craigslist). 'Vintage' is one of those great words that instantly adds value and we will inevitably see further erosion of any structure around its use.

NB - The 'vintage' cigar that was referred to earlier was from the Boisdale Canary Wharf launch event hosted by Cgars. We were given (as part of the 'three mature Orchant Selection cigars' included in the ticket price) a Boli RC tubo 'Orchant selection' that was explained as 'vintage' as it was the OR (original release) and (apparently) therefore a desirable year ('09 I think). This would be an acceptable definition if one declares 'vintages' and price/sell accordingly ....pretty sure that is not about to happen as it would mean removing the term 'vintage' from nearly all cigars from 1999-2003 (although there are plenty of these in the bi-annual 'vintage' auction).

However is should be noted (as I found looking back at the invite) the word 'vintage' was not used.

So now we have 'mature' as well as 'vintage'. For me no 3 year cold Cuban cigar could ever be described as 'mature'. Still it was a cracking evening and overall very good value so not too much to worry about there.

Like most collectables our beloved stogies run a wide and complex gamut. For me I smoke, enjoy, share, age and collect ...and try not to get too hung up on undefinable terms.

[monkey66]

I have a box of 2005 Upmann LE Mag 50 and I would not think of them as being "Vintage". Anything from the late nineties would be more likely to be classed as vintage, however this does not mean they are going to be a good smoke.

There were a lot of crap smokes from the late nineties, as everyone knows.

Really

http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?12011-Cuban-Cigar-Make-a-Wish-(MAW)&p=178814#post178814